Out of Line Ep. 18 | Why This HR Leader Walked Away From Her VP Title | Jamee Niles

Tiffany Scott thinking back to when we first met and this is like so powerful of networking and social media. So I had just launched my business and I had put this really vulnerable video out. And I was basically, spilling my guts to the world. And I don't think I was even ready to go live yet, but I, you know, you just have to Pull the trigger at one point and see if you fall on your face. And somebody that I used to work with like 10 years ago, we had just recently reconnected. Well, she shared my post. And you commented on it. And I remember you saying, like, I love helping out small businesses. And, you know, this is seems to be in my space. So you came on and you tried my product. And we we connected almost immediately. And

Jamee Niles Yeah. Yep.

Tiffany Scott number one, I I was I was so appreciative. I was like, somebody's watching, somebody's listening. You know,

Jamee Niles Ha ha ha

Tiffany Scott you're like, you're you're counting every little reaction that you get. But two, I had an immediate connection with you. Number one,

Jamee Niles Yeah.

Tiffany Scott just the fact that you had that that like compassion and understanding too, and and come to find out, then here you are, a solo entrepreneur who's had her business for for several years. So I like our our meeting story. And we've talked a lot since then and just kind of rolled into like, let's just we've always had like casual conversation. Like, why don't we just record this one day? And I'd

Jamee Niles Yeah.

Tiffany Scott so I'm so excited that you agreed to be on. Took us a little while with our schedules, and you're always super busy. but I I always just wanted to I wanted to tell you like how appreciative I was of you even just giving me a chance in my business. And you know, it looks like It we might have some synergies there, still working that out, but but I always appreciated that

Jamee Niles when I went out on my own, I was always leery about how I was going to make those connections. And LinkedIn was a piece of what I used in the past, but not to the magnitude of how

Tiffany Scott Okay. Mm.

Jamee Niles I'm using it now. And I have met so many people. And I was also leery of connecting with people in the same space as me, because I didn't know if they would want to connect with me if we're going after the same work or the same

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles But I found with HR people, like they just love to connect and you

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles have that commonality of what your past experience has been and what you're going through now. And I

Tiffany Scott Yes.

Jamee Niles and I felt that with you. I mean, staffing wasn't a huge piece of my business. It's growing.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles and then I thought, my God, like your tool one could be a a great resource for me. And two, like you said, we connected. And, you know, when you find people that you connect with, it it it's easy.

Tiffany Scott You d yeah, it is. Yeah, you just cling to those people, you know, and there's relatability there. I don't

Jamee Niles And you take advantage of that, for sure. Yep. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Tiffany Scott I I have a there's another level to connections with somebody who's started their own business because

Jamee Niles Agree.

Tiffany Scott you know, there's you don't know a you don't know the hardship till you're in it. You don't know the sacrifice, you don't know the I I had said the pain, the pan

Jamee Niles Yes. Yeah. The pain. The pain.

Tiffany Scott I had said panic to somebody. I was like, it's just you're just a constant like state

Jamee Niles Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany Scott of panic. and you just you know it's gonna be hard. Everybody tells you it's gonna be hard. It's like labor, you know? Like you know it's you just don't and then you know, hopefully

Jamee Niles It is. You don't

Tiffany Scott you get through it, but you but the the connections that that you make. I think that that is what's helped me through it. Cause, you know, somebody like you who you've been what four years?

Jamee Niles Four years. Four years in July. Yeah. Yeah. Which has been crazy.

Tiffany Scott More years. Yeah. It's just great to learn from somebody who is, you know, they're on the other side of being a newbie at it, right?

Jamee Niles Yeah, you know, but for me I still feel like I'm new because

Tiffany Scott Deal.

Jamee Niles I I do 'cause you know, the consulting business is it's highs and lows. I mean, there are times that I'm

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Jamee Niles so busy I can't my head is spinning. And then there are times like, my God, I don't have any work right now. What am I gonna do?

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles And so when I'm in that place, I feel like I'm starting again. I feel like I'm going back to what I had to do

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles from the beginning, which is reconnect with people because I lost connections with people because I was so busy. That's the downside

Tiffany Scott it's so tough.

Jamee Niles to being a one one person operation is you don't have anybody else to rely on, to pick

Tiffany Scott No.

Jamee Niles up the slack if you get too busy. So I I often feel like I am starting from the beginning again.

Tiffany Scott Has it ever has it ever been, you know, really bad where you thought maybe, oof, I might have to ditch this and go back to corporate? Ugh, that's scary. Yeah.

Jamee Niles You know, I really, really, really don't want to go back to corporate. That's one thing that I'm pretty sure of. but yeah, I mean, slow periods, summer and December, January,

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles tend to be slow periods. And it's funny

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm.

Jamee Niles because you know, my husband helps me. He does my billing and he does, you know, my accounting stuff. And he sees me go into these panic moods and he's like,

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Jamee Niles take a deep breath, relax. It's going to be fine. You do this every year. You go through the same thing. And I do things like I join new networking groups and I, you know, start to have more of a previo presence out on LinkedIn or other thing. And then as soon as I do all of that, bam, I get I get busy

Tiffany Scott Well

Jamee Niles and then I can't do any of the things that I wanted to do. So it's

Tiffany Scott Right, right, right.

Jamee Niles it's it's it's this craziness that you just kind of have to figure out how to manage. but knowing that I have him in my ear. all the time to say just breathe. It's okay if you have a couple of

Tiffany Scott That's yeah.

Jamee Niles months where you are slow. It's not it's not gonna kill us, right? We're fine. And I just I need that encouragement because I don't like I don't like to be bored. I'm I'm a t very strong type A. I need

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Yeah.

Jamee Niles something to do all the time and sitting around just frustrates me. so

Tiffany Scott Yeah, I think and I think to your point, that support system is crucial. Because if you just sit and linger, and of course, you know, as as women and moms, we're overthinkers half the time. So I mean, we'll put ourselves right into bankruptcy in our heads if we let it, you know?

Jamee Niles just a a quick personal side story. So I my husband and I were dating. We met in September. In June I hurt my back really, really bad.

Tiffany Scott no?

Jamee Niles and I had to have surgery. And the surgery had some complications and I ended up being out of work for about ninety days, a little bit more than

Tiffany Scott Ooh.

Jamee Niles ninety days. where I was supposed to be back after like four weeks.

Tiffany Scott Yeah. my God, jeez.

Jamee Niles I ended up with a staph infection from my surgery. I was in and out of the hospital for 30, I think it was 34, 35 days over a period of

Tiffany Scott Cheese.

Jamee Niles time. And he stood by me the entire time. We had only been dating nine months. He moved me

Tiffany Scott Wow Wow.

Jamee Niles into his home. He took care of my dog. He helped with my kids.

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Jamee Niles He paid my bills. Like he didn't have to do any of that after only being together for a short period of time.

Tiffany Scott Right.

Jamee Niles Everybody around me, because I was out of it. I was really sick. And afterwards everyone was like, You do not let him go. Like he is somebody that you hold on to because

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Right.

Jamee Niles he literally took over your life and took care of you. He spent

Tiffany Scott Wow.

Jamee Niles nights He rode in ambulances with me to the hospital. Like he it it just I mean, I had no perspective at that time what he was doing. but afterwards everybody was like, You if you don't keep him, I'm gonna take him.

Tiffany Scott Roof, yeah. I'll take

Jamee Niles It was yeah. I mean

Tiffany Scott right? Yeah.

Jamee Niles you know, it was just people like who who does that? Who does that for somebody that

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles they only know for a period of time? And it just showed

Tiffany Scott Wow.

Jamee Niles me the type of person that he really was. And I knew that before,

Tiffany Scott yeah.

Jamee Niles but that just kind of sealed it for me. And

Tiffany Scott proves, yeah.

Jamee Niles yeah, yeah, yeah. And

Tiffany Scott Well that

Jamee Niles y you know, to to this day still. Yeah.

Tiffany Scott I love that success story and I'm so happy for you that, you know, you're on the other side

Jamee Niles Thank you. I am.

Tiffany Scott of the you know, probably I I mean I can't speak for you, but I know from experience some of the hardest times that we can go through, especially with kids. So

Jamee Niles Yeah, for sure.

Tiffany Scott it gives us hope for you know, the rest of us, Jamie.

Jamee Niles Yes, absolutely. It's there.

Tiffany Scott but you know, and and all the while, you know, you've been you've had this business. So take us back to, you know, you start in corporate like the rest of us. We do.

Jamee Niles Yeah.

Tiffany Scott tell us about the beginning and and your career and like and then what led you. To go out on your own.

Jamee Niles Yeah, so like you said, corporate my whole my whole life. I mean, I graduated Boston University. I actually had a teaching degree.

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Jamee Niles in the back of my mind for years my mother was a teacher. I had always wanted to be a teacher. And I was an athlete, I wanted to be a coach, like it everything just kind of fell around that and I wanted to be a fizz ed teacher. and so I graduated with a teaching degree and my

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Jamee Niles first job at a school was was teaching. I went to work

Tiffany Scott Wow.

Jamee Niles for a private organization that built almost like a gimbree type class environment with like after school programs and

Tiffany Scott cool.

Jamee Niles and then like a like a Chuck E. Cheese type environment. It was just one of these like big complexes. And I had the opportunity

Tiffany Scott Fun.

Jamee Niles to write programming. I was doing teaching. I was learning about running a business. So it was kind of really cool.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles and I actually got hurt. I I had my first exposure to workers comp. I

Tiffany Scott my gosh.

Jamee Niles was playing in the gym with a bunch of six year olds, and you know, you get goofy and you you pretend fall, and the next thing I knew

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles I had, you know, 15 six year olds on top of me and I herniated a disc in my back, and that was the beginning of all of my back problems.

Tiffany Scott The Yeah.

Jamee Niles and then after that I I never could really go back to what I I was out for a while, physical therapy, you know, and I was doing desk

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Jamee Niles work and I it just wasn't what I but I loved it,

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles you know, and I always thought how can I go back to doing what I love to do if I have restrictions? Not that, you

Tiffany Scott Right.

Jamee Niles know, you play fall and kids jump on top of you, but you know, being a phys ed teacher, you're you're hitting balls and you're climbing walls and And so I was just

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles nervous about what I was going to be able to do. But

Tiffany Scott Right.

Jamee Niles I loved the like the hiring side of the business and the people aspect of it. So

Tiffany Scott Okay. Yeah.

Jamee Niles back then, like it was what was it, or like mid 1996, 97, like temp work was starting to become really popular. That's when temp work really started to to have a presence. So I went to work for an organization called the Massachusetts Jobs Council. I was still living in Boston. And

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Jamee Niles I was helping people like with interviewing skills and reading re and r rewriting resumes and helping them find jobs. And all of a sudden I was like, well this is kind of fun. I'm taking a

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles little bit of my teaching background and I'm, you know, I'm helping people out and you know, giving them some encouragement and and helping them find jobs. I was like, I maybe I can make a career out of this. And and that's That's kind of how I started in the HR world. after a short I think I did that for like six months, and I was like, I think I need to go find something permanent with benefits, and you know, parents were trying to get me off their benefits, that kind of stuff. And

Tiffany Scott All right.

Jamee Niles my first job was what they would have called personnel back then. So it was, you know, like a personnel administrator

Tiffany Scott yeah, wow.

Jamee Niles for a corporate restaurant and that kind of gave me the first real job into what HR was. And

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles it just kind of took off from there. I I spent a couple of years there and then I went to my next job and you know it just it spiraled. I started to go back to school to get my masters. I unfortunately never finished it. But

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Jamee Niles you know at the time it was really interesting to me and intriguing and I had the time to do it. But as my career developed it just it became less and less of a priority unfortunately. But yeah,

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles I mean, twenty five years later, I cut my teeth in manufacturing after the restaurant business and manufacturing distribution sort of became my my sweet spot. I loved working with the hourly employees, I loved connecting

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Jamee Niles at all levels, helping leaders define what HR is and figure out how to help them grow and develop and with their people growing and developing. It just it fit. It was like a natural

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles transition. into HR. And then

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles I was with my last company for 11 years. as many of us have gone through, I went through private equity acquisition with them.

Tiffany Scott Mm, mm.

Jamee Niles I thought it was going to be the place that, you know, I would end my career. it

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles was a phenomenal team. I was part of the growth, which was the most amazing piece. when I started with the company, they had 170 employees. When I left, it was close to 4,000. And to say that I was part of that

Tiffany Scott Wow my gosh.

Jamee Niles that build was was tremendous.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles and you know, and I and I grew up. I started out as an HR manager, went to a direct a director, went to a regional director, went to, you know, and then eventually became the VP of HR and had a huge team working with me. And

Tiffany Scott Yeah, that's amazing.

Jamee Niles it was it was great. It was a great experience, but you know, it was a great company, family business. I went to work for this organization because of the way they talked about their people. They didn't call

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Jamee Niles them employees, they called them associates. And it was the first time that I had ever heard that term. And it made me

Tiffany Scott Okay. Yeah.

Jamee Niles think, okay, they kind of look at everybody as an equal. Everyone has an equal part in the success of this business. And

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles they stuck with that. That stayed with the organization until I left and hopefully it's still it's still there. But it it just made people feel differently about their role.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles and I wanted to work for somebody who had that mindset and I and I did.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles but slowly all those people started to disappear. and I knew the writing was on the wall for me to to part ways as well. And so I did. We came to a mutually agreed upon decision that this was no longer the right place for me. And

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm.

Jamee Niles you know, that was in July of twenty thro twenty two. And now then I was like, my God, what do I do now?

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles and I took a little bit of time off and thought about it. But as people started to hear that I wasn't working anymore for this company, all of a sudden my phone was ringing and emails were

Tiffany Scott Hmm.

Jamee Niles coming in saying, Well, what are you doing now? Where are you? And I'm like, Well, I don't really know. And they're like, Well, if you have some time, do you think you could help me with this? Or do you you do you want to do this for me? And

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Jamee Niles next thing I knew I was helping people out in HR and I was taking on work and figuring out, my God, I need to get my business together and how do I how do I come up with rates and you know, I don't have a website and everything just

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Right, right, right.

Jamee Niles kind of spiraled really, really fast. And

Tiffany Scott So did you ever decide on your own or you were kind of just like your network decided for you? That's great. Yeah.

Jamee Niles Well, my network decided, but again, I had my I had my husband in in the background chirping at me saying, Go out on your own. Give it a shot. Like you we've got nothing

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles to lose here. We're, you know, financially we're okay. Like you don't you got a severance package. Like do

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles what do what you want to do. Try it. Worst thing is it

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles doesn't work and we figure something else out. And so, you know, between him and my ear and then people reaching out to me, I was like, Okay, like, you know, I'm gonna do this. And

Tiffany Scott That's awesome. And

Jamee Niles That's that's sort and then I was like, Well, I gotta come up with a name and that was

Tiffany Scott Right.

Jamee Niles the hardest part of all of it was just trying to figure out what to call my business. And I was like, Well, I'll keep it simple.

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Well if that's the hardest part, I think you're doing all right.

Jamee Niles It was the hardest part in the beginning because you know, you felt like it was gonna define you, you know. And

Tiffany Scott Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You're right.

Jamee Niles you know, I don't know. I just I went with something I thought was gonna be easy and it it told what I was gonna do, what my business was and You know, so there it became JLN HR consulting. So

Tiffany Scott So yeah, so let's go back a little bit. 'cause I think so many people I talked to and I've been through it too, I've been on both sides of acquisitions. you know, did the did the owners stay on when

Jamee Niles The owner stayed on. So the timing was about three years before I left. We knew

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Jamee Niles that the private equity firm was coming in. And the way the owner, and again, phenomenal guy, like really somebody you just you look up to. the way he brought the PE firms in was he allowed us to be part of the process. So he trusted his leadership team in helping

Tiffany Scott Okay. Yeah.

Jamee Niles make a decision. And he was very confident in saying. The PE firms are coming in because they love who we are and what we've done. They

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles don't want to change anything. And, you know, in the back of our minds, we're like, okay, that sounds great.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles But the reality is at some point PE firms change everything. And we all knew that, but we were like, okay, we're on board. Like, let's, let's make sure

Tiffany Scott Right.

Jamee Niles we're making the right decision with the right organization. And so to be part of that process was really powerful.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles and we did. I mean, ultimately the decision was his, but he he took input,

Tiffany Scott Right.

Jamee Niles which was really great.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles so they made a decision and PE came in. They they were very silent for the first two years.

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Jamee Niles after the second year, the CEO had decided he was gonna step down. he was gonna stay on the board, but he was gonna step

Tiffany Scott Mm. Okay.

Jamee Niles down. And they brought in a new CEO who, again, was a great guy, saw the vision of the company, appreciated the culture, what was built, mate trying to maintain that. But it becomes hard for that individual when you've got, you know, the money guys, right, trying to take

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles the business one way and trying to maintain what was already there. And so we started

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles to see a lot of changes starting to happen.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles they were expanding the business faster. and you know, that can be challenging or,

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles you know, can have some repercussions. And we slowly started to see some new people come in at the higher level.

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Jamee Niles and slowly some people started going away and

Tiffany Scott I was gonna say, were they replacements or additions? Mm.

Jamee Niles They were replacements. So, you know, the COO was replaced, the CFO was replaced, they brought somebody in over me. which was, you know, I was very disappointed. I

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles wasn't it wasn't discussed with me at all. And frankly, you can't have two people at that level.

Tiffany Scott No

Jamee Niles And they were like, Well, you'll maintain your title and you'll stay and you know, everything will be fine, but it it just wasn't. we

Tiffany Scott Right.

Jamee Niles didn't we didn't see eye to eye and you know, what I knew about the company he didn't care about. And so

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Jamee Niles it just it really ended up not being the right decision for me to stick around anymore. and I was okay

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Yeah.

Jamee Niles with that decision. So I was sad. I was sad to see a lot

Tiffany Scott Right.

Jamee Niles of the people go. and then shortly after I left, you know, my team members started to leave and I really started to see, you know, just the company really go into a different direction. And it just wasn't I I made the right decision

Tiffany Scott Yeah. It's that's so common, you know. But

Jamee Niles Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany Scott one of one of the things that I found is we really do believe in the people during the sale process. If you get a chance to be part of that process, and I was too, you believe them. You believe them that they don't want to change things and that they want to keep things the same. And they're, you know, the reason they're buying you is because of you and what you've done and your team

Jamee Niles Yeah.

Tiffany Scott and all that. and It it's so funny. I had a different experience with PE and then we were bought by another actual company, staffing company, and my PE experience was actually opposite, it was great. I've never heard anybody else say that. I've never heard anybody else say that. Yeah.

Jamee Niles Yeah. It's very rare. And again, my my experience wasn't terrible. I made the choice to go.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles so you know, I felt like I was in a little bit more control of the situation. Would they have let me go at some

Tiffany Scott Yeah, that's good.

Jamee Niles point? Possibly, and and very high probability, more

Tiffany Scott Right.

Jamee Niles so because you couldn't have two HR people at that level. That just didn't work. so

Tiffany Scott Right. Yeah. Seems like maybe they were prepping.

Jamee Niles my my overall experience wasn't wasn't terrible.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles I just didn't like the way it ended for others, more so than for myself.

Tiffany Scott Right. So since you were involved in that process, is there anything that you would have done differently or said or added or maybe looked at another group differently? like any reflection on that now?

Jamee Niles I think, you know, hindsight's always twenty twenty, right? I mean,

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles I I wish I could have shared more with the people that worked for me because I

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles think they felt betrayed in a lot of ways,

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles what they didn't know. And, you know, someone says to you, you know, we're sharing information with you, but you need to keep it under wraps, that's hard. Especially

Tiffany Scott Hard

Jamee Niles when you work with people you care about and work with people that came to that organization because of you. I mean, I've had countless

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles people who've I've who I hired when I was there say to me, I went there because of you. because

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Jamee Niles of how you s you talked about the organization, because of how you sold it. and I believed everything that I was saying.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles so I I think the people piece is is probably the biggest betrayal.

Tiffany Scott Yeah,

Jamee Niles and then there were things happening, you know, I know behind my back. Like when I was negotiating my exit, I know that things were happening behind my back. And they were cutting me out of things and the people that I trusted were the ones doing it. And I get it. They were in a tough state. They needed to maintain their job. So they're

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Yeah.

Jamee Niles gonna do what the new person is saying.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles but it it just the people piece was really I think the hardest regret that I have

Tiffany Scott I agree.

Jamee Niles is is not protecting them a little bit more and not not being able to share more with them.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles and I think so we did a lot of Covey teaching Stephen Covey at at

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Jamee Niles my last organization. And often we would use John Wooden, who was a basketball coach.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles and there's a quote that has stuck with me more recently, especially with doing my own business, and it says, Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are.

Tiffany Scott Wow.

Jamee Niles And I think that was that's something that has stuck with me more in the last few years because my character is my business.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles you know, my reputation's gonna come because of what I do and how I do it. And

Tiffany Scott Right.

Jamee Niles I don't wanna ever and I felt like I lost a lot of who I was the last couple of years at my company. And

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Yeah.

Jamee Niles so this th that's something that just kind of sticks with me as I think about my business and and making sure that I'm serving my clients the right way.

Tiffany Scott Yeah, that's really relatable. I feel like I feel like the same thing kinda happened to me towards the end. And I think what's great now is we can be whoever the hell we want, you know? And

Jamee Niles Yep, absolutely.

Tiffany Scott it and it's like you you know, I don't know about you, but you know, I feel like I was reprimanded for doing what I thought was right a lot of times. It's like, okay, well now at least I can get back to that. And it's the politics of it that I you know, like you were saying, like I'd never want to go back to corporate. I would never want to go back to a corporate setting. probably over a hundred employees if, you know, like get me to a smaller company with that intimate setting where people are still enthusiastic to grow and

Jamee Niles Yes.

Tiffany Scott you haven't gotten into all of the games that people play. Now

Jamee Niles Yeah. And I mean the biggest challenge that I had was that I was not a political person. And I had a very

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles hard time playing that game because someone wanted me to do something that I didn't think was right. And

Tiffany Scott Same.

Jamee Niles that hindered me in my career.

Tiffany Scott yeah.

Jamee Niles but I again it goes back to that quote. My my character is important to me. Who

Tiffany Scott Yes.

Jamee Niles I am is important to me. I'm I'm not gonna sacrifice that because,

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles you know, the big boss is is asking me to do something that I think is unethical or wrong.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles and that's when I knew it was time to go also when I was being asked to do things that were outside the

Tiffany Scott Mm. Good for you.

Jamee Niles scope of my character. And I don't ever I'm not gonna look back now and and say, you know, I should have done this or I should have done that. That's not that's not valuable. you know, we

Tiffany Scott What are you gonna do? Yeah. Good for you.

Jamee Niles I have a path forward and you know, if it works, great. If it doesn't, I figure something else out. you know, confident enough to to be able to do that. I have the passion to do what I wanna do. And you know, again if if it doesn't work, I know I tried. And that's

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles that's all I can do at this point.

Tiffany Scott Now what would what is what does success look like to you now in your business ultimately? What are you know, where do you wanna where n where do you want to be with your company?

Jamee Niles Yeah, I mean, success to me is is just enjoy is enjoying what I'm doing. it's

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Jamee Niles not about getting, you know, a thousand customers. It's not about making a million dollars. It's it's enjoying what I'm doing and knowing that I'm having an impact on the organizations that I'm doing it for.

Tiffany Scott Okay. Yeah.

Jamee Niles I love what I do. I had somebody I did a one on one yesterday with somebody through a networking group. And she said, as soon as you started to talk about what you do for your clients, you lit up. And that's what my clients see when they talk to me is that I

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles I love what I do. I get excited about what I do. it's HR. And people are like, really? Like you get excited about or I'm like, but it's more than that. It's more, it's setting an organization up to be successful and teaching

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles them how to treat their people the right way and making sure that they have the structure to do it. Small companies struggle with stuff like that because

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles one bad decision has a bigger impact.

Tiffany Scott Yeah, it does.

Jamee Niles it just it hits everybody. And so setting them up with the right structure to be able to protect what they have is important.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles and that's what I love to do. I do miss being in a larger organization and seeing the long term effect of what you do.

Tiffany Scott Right.

Jamee Niles And that's taken me a little bit of time to get over because I'll often like reach out, you know, to my customers and be like, hey, how's I just want to check in, you know, how's everything

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles going? Because I do miss seeing the impact that I have on a at a longer on a longer term. but because you're in and out. And that's

Tiffany Scott Yeah, 'cause you're kinda in and out. Yeah.

Jamee Niles that's the downside to my business. I do have some clients that I that I'm there. I'm just always there, which is great.

Tiffany Scott That's great.

Jamee Niles but those are few and far between as opposed to getting in, doing something and getting out. So to me, I mean hearing back from my clients is, you know, is a sign of success.

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm.

Jamee Niles them checking in or me checking in with them and getting that thumbs up that things are still good and they haven't needed me. I mean, you know, HR is one of those things you want them to need you, but

Tiffany Scott You do.

Jamee Niles You know, if if they don't, that means you did something right because you taught them how to talk to

Tiffany Scott Absolutely.

Jamee Niles people the right way and how to coach and counsel and you know, so you have to find those those successes and and be proud of those successes. So I you know,

Tiffany Scott That's not easy, Jamie.

Jamee Niles it's not. It's not. And again, being a one person operation, I you know, I need to know that that that there's more coming.

Tiffany Scott Right.

Jamee Niles and you know, can't Can't keep going back to the same ones. you gotta you gotta find a correct. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. It's well, it's funny

Tiffany Scott Right, right, right. Well, especially if you're setting up right. Right? Yeah. You have to start sucking a little bit more, right?

Jamee Niles because I have I have clients that hire me because they don't have an HR person. So they'll bring me

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm.

Jamee Niles in, I'll do the HR work for them, and then they'll go, you know, like you're spending a lot of time with us. Maybe we do need an HR person. Can you find us an HR person? So I'll find them an HR person and I put myself out of work. So Yeah.

Tiffany Scott Yeah. And that's kind of how you accidentally ended up is that how you accidentally ended up staffing? Because you didn't get into that until your clients started kind of demanding it, right? Yeah.

Jamee Niles Correct. Yeah. I mean, recruiting was never something I really I I didn't enjoy because I, you know, it's brutal out there today. I mean, you you know, you come from the staffing industry, right? Candidates, they talk, they talk, they talk, and then when it comes time to meet them, they don't show up or they, you know, like

Tiffany Scott No, it's awful.

Jamee Niles it's just frustrating. And I have to explain that to my clients,

Tiffany Scott yeah.

Jamee Niles like why why I can't get candidates in front of them because they don't show up for the interview. Why don't they show up for the interviews? Like, so I

Tiffany Scott Right.

Jamee Niles it's just the frustrating piece of the business where everything else in HR I can control. So maybe it's a little bit of a control issue that I have.

Tiffany Scott Yeah, that's true.

Jamee Niles But but my my clients have asked for it and I'm not gonna say no. I can recruit.

Tiffany Scott Mm. Yeah.

Jamee Niles I'm good at it. I, you know, I'm good at figuring people out. and so I've been doing more and more of it. and actually that's kind of what led me to you, right? Was was looking

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles at your your software. So you know, it's it's a it there's a big need out there.

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm.

Jamee Niles for recruiters to find the right people. you know, and I get candidates all the time that reach out to me going, Can you help me find a job? So, you know, that's the other piece

Tiffany Scott Wow.

Jamee Niles of the business.

Tiffany Scott Yeah, that I mean it's when your I always say that's when your product is a person, it's so hard and un unpredictable. And then you've got the

Jamee Niles Yes. Yeah.

Tiffany Scott client side, right? That, you know, they track their feed and then you're like, no, you know how long it took me to get this person. You know, this is the right person. Why? Make a decision.

Jamee Niles Companies move so slow. They move so slow. I know. And they and they weigh down their process. They put, you know, five or six people to interview a candidate. And I'm like, my God, you guys, like you're you're you're

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles you're hurting yourself because you are going to lose good people because they're

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles not gonna wait because somebody else is gonna move faster than you. But yeah.

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Well, you know, we're I was the culprit of that in my old company. We did a lot of we we did multiple step interviews. for but we did it for a couple of reasons. The but we did a little differently. We set the expectation first. We would tell them, like, this is gonna be a longer process. We'll, you know, do you have anything else going on that we need to speed through? And we were mindful of that. But I think a lot of times companies will just continue to add people to the process that make no sense and make no difference. You know, we had them meet with leadership team that would be impacting their job and we had him doing job shadow, you know? So I think if you set the right expectations up front, and you tell tell them why, it then okay, I can do that. But being s

Jamee Niles Yeah. You know, and I think companies do it because they want to test the candidate as much as the candidate wants to test the employer. You know,

Tiffany Scott I know Right.

Jamee Niles how committed are they to the process? Well, come on, if you're gonna expect someone to commit six weeks to a hiring process, you know, let's let's be a little realistic here.

Tiffany Scott It's ridiculous. And then they are at fault when they when they the candidate pulls out and you know, it's a reflection on you and like come on, people.

Jamee Niles Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've had to have conversations to say, you, you know, you're losing good candidates, you're slowing the process down. You know, you're even salary conversations. There

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles are companies out there that are so naive to the compensation piece. And they're like, Well, you this is what I'm giving you, and you've got to find it. I'm like, okay, well. then you're gonna have to lower your standards. If you want

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles someone with ten years of experience, but you only wanna pay you know, fifty five, sixty-five thousand dollars, you're never gonna find You're just not.

Tiffany Scott So how do you how do you approach those conversations? And are you ever nervous that they're gonna turn away?

Jamee Niles I I haven't had anybody turn away because of my honesty. And I, you know, with my

Tiffany Scott Good. god, yeah, good.

Jamee Niles clients, like, look, you you hired me because you trust my judgment and you

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm.

Jamee Niles trust it's not about, you know, it making me more money because that's what they often think. Well, if you get a higher salary, you're gonna get compensated more. It's not about that. It's about finding you the right candidate. And in

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Right.

Jamee Niles order to find you the right candidate, you have to trust me here. and so again, the People that I recruit for, I have relationships with.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles So I feel comfortable going to them and saying, You gotta trust me here. I need another ten thousand dollars to get this done for you. Or I

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm.

Jamee Niles need you to change the title because the title's not really reflecting what the job is or what the compensation is. And so

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles they're often more adaptive to that piece than they are changing the comp. But then they

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Right.

Jamee Niles realize, okay, like it makes sense. I I get it. So now we're finding the right person for the right money.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles But it's it's hard. I mean, I've offered to do comp surveys for them. I've you know offered to provide data to them so they understand the challenge.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles and you know, we get there eventually.

Tiffany Scott Yeah, no that's

Jamee Niles but it just it comes down to them, you know, just trusting me. And that's what I have to say a lot of times. Trust me. Like this is why you this is why you hired me. You need to

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles trust me that I'm doing the right thing for you. And you know, most of the time it works out.

Tiffany Scott It seems too like you have a vetting process for these clients because all the things that you do, you have to basically tell people their baby's ugly, you know? And you

Jamee Niles Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany Scott can't tell every and just anybody that. You know, you tell the wrong person that and like you're not making an impact. You're getting the boot, right? So what is your vetting process? And who have you had to walk away from clients before? Yeah, tell me about that.

Jamee Niles Yeah. I yeah. So you know, just like a candidate, right? I'm interviewing the client as much as they're interviewing me. It's gotta be

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles a the right fit for me. I have

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles to one, like the people that I'm working with, right?

Tiffany Scott Right.

Jamee Niles I don't wanna like have to, today I gotta talk to Joe and you know, that's gonna be awful. I don't wanna feel that way when I'm

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Yeah.

Jamee Niles working with my clients. so I am absolutely considering them as much as they're considering me. I have had I had one of my earlier clients was a friend and her husband need her husband's business needed help.

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Jamee Niles I was skeptical one about working for a friend who I've

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles known since college. I known her husband you know for a long long time as well. I just I don't want anything To affect my friendship. That was

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles more important to me. But I I took the work anyway. it is the client that I had to walk away from.

Tiffany Scott Ooh.

Jamee Niles it was it was difficult. They were hard to work for and

Tiffany Scott In what way?

Jamee Niles Two brothers, one no problem, would listen. The other one would not. And

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Okay.

Jamee Niles it wasn't the one that was listening. He was the easy one. It was the other

Tiffany Scott Right, right.

Jamee Niles one. it just it just didn't work. I I couldn't connect with him. I couldn't make him understand the whys behind what I was doing. I was trying really hard to set them up for success, and they just

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles They could not get out of their own way. They were so stuck in the way that they were doing things that they couldn't see the value of what I was proposing.

Tiffany Scott What was one of the things that you were trying to implement there that they were opposed to?

Jamee Niles So they had an individual who worked for them that kind of controlled everything. And she she had been with the business a long time, not at a high level, sort of middle administrative. She had final say on everything I was doing. It was weird. It was so, so weird. And I essentially was taking work away from her. so she she didn't like that

Tiffany Scott Right. Threatening yeah, that's a threat. No.

Jamee Niles at all. And it was because of her that I just couldn't get things done. And again, one brother was listening, the other one wasn't. So

Tiffany Scott Yeah, yeah.

Jamee Niles it it just became very, very contentious. they just they they just wouldn't listen.

Tiffany Scott Right. So what was that final final conversation like?

Jamee Niles i the it was with the the one individual that I had a good relationship with and he understood. He's like I and he said I I don't blame you. Like this is

Tiffany Scott good relationship with makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.

Jamee Niles this is not easy. And so, you know, and again I said to him I'm I'm doing this for my relationship with you and your wife. Like that's more important to me than me collecting a paycheck. and

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles it sort of made me think, I don't know that I'd ever get into a relationship like that again with

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles family or close friends or, you know, 'cause I don't want anything to get in the way of that. That's more important to me.

Tiffany Scott Yeah. So what advice would you have for somebody kind of facing a similar situation? Especially if they're out on their own and I mean, we eat what we kill, right? Like so and we're starving. Mm-hmm.

Jamee Niles Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, look, I think someone's gotta look deep, like how important is the business to you? You know, is it worth sacrificing who you are, your integrity, what you do?

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles and if you're confident enough, then you should walk away. If

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm.

Jamee Niles you're not, then you know, then let's talk because I want to get you to that point where you can feel good. It's a paycheck. I

Tiffany Scott Right.

Jamee Niles get it. And some people

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles need that paycheck and that's the driver. But don't don't sacrifice yourself or your character. I mean, you know, I go back to that quote, your reputation, you know,

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles if you have to tell the story that you walked away from a client, it's okay. It shouldn't be a bad story to tell. You did it for the right reasons. And

Tiffany Scott yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jamee Niles someone's just got to be confident in that. But you know, I I and again, I I get the paycheck piece. You you need the money, you need the income, but

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jamee Niles it's just in the long run, it's just not worth it. It's just not.

Tiffany Scott Yeah. So one of the things that it was funny when when we we don't do much prep, right, for this. I think I'd just given you a quick like QA and one of the reasons I started this podcast, there's a bunch of reasons. You know, I wanted to stay in touch with my field and I love entrepreneurs. being a new one, I love learning from people. There's a little selfishness in it. But you had said in there, because I I always ask people like, What's a rule that you broke? You know, like and because we're, you know, my my podcast is out of line and we're just well like I like people like that, you know. It was kind of rebelling against that corporate politics, right? That we we went through. and you said that you hadn't. You're like, I don't I don't I haven't broken any rules. And but I but I I look at you a little differently. Because I I think that anybody who has got the guts to do what you've done is somebody that can go against the grain. And, you know, you walked away, you made that, you know, whether it was mutual, whether it was, you know, you made that decision to walk away and start this. And to this day, you're on your own. what, you know, what keeps what keeps you going and do you s do you see it a little differently now? Like, all right, maybe you're not the one that always kind of falls in in line. And you know, there's there's nothing about owning your own business that there's no rule bo like, there's rule books. But there really isn't. Like you have

Jamee Niles Yeah.

Tiffany Scott to just make the decisions. so do you do you see things any differently kind of looking at it that way? Like you weren't, you know you weren't a cookie cutter type of person to do this all on your own and go out and get clients and make a successful living off of it.

Jamee Niles Yeah, I mean, I was scared. I I I mean, honestly, I I worried a lot about whether I could make this work, whether I was going to have an income. whether, you know, I don't nobody wants to fail, right? And I I can honestly say I've been very successful in my career. I don't know that I have truly I've struggled, but I don't know that I've failed,

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Jamee Niles at something that I've put my mind to. I was an athlete growing up. I, you

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles know I wasn't a big academic. Like grades weren't important to me, you know,

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles sports were important to me. And I had my challenges, but I was scared doing this. I because I was afraid of that failure piece.

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm.

Jamee Niles And, you know, did I take work in the beginning that I probably, you know, wouldn't take today? Absolutely, because I needed to figure out what it was. what my business is gonna shape into.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles I think my s okay. so I you know I don't know, the question is is h is a tricky one. I don't I don't know. I think I I'm struggling to answer it the same way I struggle to answer it on your on your questionnaire. I don't

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think here's kind of how I see it. What I take take from you is that, you know, you your ca like you've talked about your character, you've talked about how hard you've worked. And I think that's very black and white in your world. And I think that you've applied that to your own business. And I guess for what I'm, you know, the the the point I'm trying to make is that I don't think that we can always be, you know, that cookie cutter type of rule follower when you have to take risks. And you take a risk every single day by not having a safety net. We just owning your obest, you just don't have that. If you're at the top and you're the one that's responsible for literally everything, you don't have that safety net. So I just look at you as you know, having that courage, like you you're not a rule follower. You are somebody that, you know, can break the mold and to do something that you want to do completely by yourself. And I just think that's, you know, I me, I'm I am just a flat out role break breaker. it's funny because I was an ops person, so I do like to follow a process. but there's there's a double edge to that, I think. But I just, you know, I th I think that it's very courageous what you did and you know, you could have easily gone just back to get another VP of HR job. You know?

Jamee Niles Yeah. I could have. You're you're absolutely right. But I didn't want to. So I you know, and I

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles and I felt pretty strongly about that. I was I was burnt out. I was exhausted.

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Jamee Niles And that was that was really the driver to say, I mean, COVID had a lot to do with that because the company I worked for was open and I was in the office every day and I had 3,000 lives, you know, on my shoulders to ensure that They continue

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles to have a paycheck every day. And it just it I was wiped out. I I did not want to go back into that setting. So I put a lot of pressure on myself to figure it out.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles and I'm a high stress, I'm a type A. So I'm a high stress individual.

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Yeah.

Jamee Niles I second guess mys I don't come across as the type of person that second guesses themselves.

Tiffany Scott I don't.

Jamee Niles I I can show a pretty high confidence level, but internally I am churning. Like I could throw up any minute.

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Jamee Niles nerves, you know, and because I don't want to be a failure. I

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles something that was instilled in me, you know, at a very young age, you're you're not a failure. You're you know, you don't want to fail at anything that you try. It's okay to fail if you've put 100% in like, you know, those those theories all all worked and they all made sense to me. But as an adult, when you have other people relying on you, now it's like failure's not an option. You've got to figure out a way to make it work.

Tiffany Scott Right. Yeah.

Jamee Niles so you know, I just I needed to find what worked for me. And I

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles didn't want to put myself into a box. I didn't want to say, well, this is what you're gonna offer. This is what

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Jamee Niles you can give to your clients, these are their choices, and that's it.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles I go to my clients and say, You tell me what you need, and I will put the package together.

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Jamee Niles And Not having anybody else as part of my team allows me to do that. If I had to

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles share that decision with somebody else, there might have to be more structure. And I'm

Tiffany Scott Right.

Jamee Niles a fairly structured individual. I like the straight lines, I like the, you know, everything fits into a nice little neat box, but

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles I've had to change quite a bit running my own business. I've had to modify myself and be flexible, and be willing to do things that I might not have done before, but that's okay.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles you know, as an ad you know, fifty-four year old, I've grown, I've changed. you

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles know, my my Myers Briggs assessment to

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jamee Niles for twenty five years never changed. If I took it today,

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Jamee Niles I bet you it would be different.

Tiffany Scott Yeah, it's funny. I did I had somebody on my podcast a couple of months ago and it was a different test. It wasn't Myers Briggs, but you know, personality test.

Jamee Niles Yeah.

Tiffany Scott And there were significant changes in my personality now versus when I was COO. And And it it was shocking to me. And I didn't even realize it, you know, because you're gonna just click in the words, right? There's

Jamee Niles Yeah.

Tiffany Scott not much to these tests. It's like I I thought I was mi you know, consciously like knowing who I was. And this I think I think it changed me for the better, hopefully. But it was things that I, you know, like taking more risks and you know, kind of jumping in. I was always a little bit more cautious and wanted a little bit more research, you know. So it's funny how, you know, this kind of forces a different side of your personality. What do you think that was for you? Like what did you have to be more flexible on?

Jamee Niles to be calmer. and

Tiffany Scott okay. Interesting.

Jamee Niles yeah, I think because I have always been a very high stress, high anxiety, not anxiety, but just like I wear bear the weight on my shoulders for everything

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Okay.

Jamee Niles and everyone. Plus getting divorced. You know, that was that was a big piece of taking on responsibility for everyone and everything.

Tiffany Scott Right.

Jamee Niles But I was always like that. I was never the kind of person that could sit still. I was always, you know, my Neck was always tight, and I could get a massage, and then five minutes later I'd walk out of the massage and I would be all stressed out. And

Tiffany Scott Tense, yeah.

Jamee Niles this has calmed me down considerably.

Tiffany Scott Wow.

Jamee Niles which you would think it would do the exact opposite, but it hasn't.

Tiffany Scott Opposite, definitely. Huh.

Jamee Niles and it might also be having my husband in my corner who, you

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles know, gives me this calmness environment. we've lightened our lifeload. We sold our house, we're living in an apartment. Like we've done things to ease, to

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles ease our burdens. and I think all of that has just allowed me to approach this in a very softer and calmer way. I don't

Tiffany Scott Petra, yeah.

Jamee Niles if I'm not working, I'm learning how to be okay with that. It will come back. You

Tiffany Scott Huh. Yeah.

Jamee Niles know, the first year panics, you know, panic,

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles you know, strikes. But

Tiffany Scott Right.

Jamee Niles Now, four years in, I've, you know, couple couple of weeks, I had nothing to do. You know, I, as I said earlier, joined networking groups, I did all these things.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles And then boom, the work comes right back. So I've learned the pattern, which

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Yeah.

Jamee Niles has allowed me to to again ease my stress and ease my calmness. I also, you know, was a very strong high extrovert. I

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Jamee Niles have grown to appreciate being alone and finding

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Jamee Niles time to read a book. And and I think it's look,

Tiffany Scott Wow.

Jamee Niles I think part of it is just life. I think your life goes through stages. My kids are in a good place. You

Tiffany Scott Course. Yeah.

Jamee Niles know, my son is out of college and working and he's he's loving what he's doing. My daughter's happy at school. Like the burden of worrying about everybody else is different now.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles and so between that and the timing of starting my business, everything just sort of fell into place.

Tiffany Scott That's great.

Jamee Niles And it became easier. and I I feel very fortunate, you know, to feel that way because again, most people in my situation are probably more stressed out and more anxious than they have

Tiffany Scott Great. Yeah.

Jamee Niles been because you've got to worry about where your paycheck is coming from or and I do have to worry about that,

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Right.

Jamee Niles but but I know that it will come back.

Tiffany Scott Yeah. So you know that. What advice would you give to somebody I mean, like me,

Jamee Niles Yeah.

Tiffany Scott earlier in the starting a business or you know, anybody else who's about to start a business and has that fear and that that stress because that's not good. I think a lot of times it it makes you want to make desperate decisions, you want to

Jamee Niles Yeah.

Tiffany Scott w work with people you wouldn't normally, et cetera. So what advice would you give

Jamee Niles Yeah. Yeah I

Tiffany Scott or do you give to people in that

Jamee Niles I think

Tiffany Scott position?

Jamee Niles I think the best advice I can give somebody is to have patience.

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Jamee Niles and trust yourself. Don't

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Jamee Niles just take that meeting because you think it's the right thing you need to do. Take

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm.

Jamee Niles the meeting because you want to take the meeting and you think it's going to be the right thing for your business. If you say no to one thing, I promise you two more things are gonna come. So

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Jamee Niles I I think just getting confident in that piece and

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles trusting it. I mean, I took advantage of every networking opportunity. I went to chamber meetings, I found

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Jamee Niles outside groups, I joined B and I, I joined the Connective, like I I put myself out there. I spent money putting myself out there. And

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Jamee Niles I don't regret any of those decisions. You have to take some chances, for sure. But don't

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm.

Jamee Niles completely overwhelm yourself with those chances. Know

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles that make sure there's purpose in those chances. and and just again, I think you know what you need to do. You're a confident person. Like just trust in yourself that that half hour meeting or that hour meeting is going to be time well spent for you. Don't just

Tiffany Scott Right.

Jamee Niles take it just to fill your calendar. Make sure that it's going to be adding value to what you hope, you know

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles What what your hope is for your business.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles because it's it's easy to get sucked in. It's easy to, you know, just throw meetings on your calendars and go, well, I met with 20 people today. I feel great. Well, think

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles about all those 20 meetings that you had today. How many of them actually added any value to you or your business? Probably two or three.

Tiffany Scott Where are they going? Right. Yeah. Right.

Jamee Niles and maybe that, you know. five hours that you spent doing those 30 minute meetings could have been used in a different way.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles so I think you just I my advice to people is trust yourself. Trust your gut. You're gonna make

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jamee Niles mistakes. That's okay. I make mistakes along the way. but you're gonna learn from every mistake and just take note

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles of those.

Tiffany Scott Yeah. I like how you said earlier, you know, you've struggled but you've never failed. And I think that that's a good way to look at it 'cause it and I'm thinking now, like, well, what really is failure? Like how do you define failure? And is it right.

Jamee Niles Well, and who defines failure, I think is a big piece. If somebody else tells you you failed, w

Tiffany Scott Good point.

Jamee Niles what's their definition of of failing versus yours?

Tiffany Scott And is it just struggle, you know? Maybe that's all it is. It's just the way that we look you know, that we look at it. And, you know, maybe currently right now is just the struggle. It's not not a failure and you just have to push through till you get on the other side of it. So I it is. Yeah.

Jamee Niles Failure's a bad word. I mean, it's just it makes people feel bad. It just, you know, you hear somebody say, Well, you failed. It's like in school, like you failed the test.

Tiffany Scott Yeah. So if you, you know, what would you say is like your motto to keep going? You know, it seems like you have a lot of determination,

Jamee Niles Yeah.

Tiffany Scott and and probably a lot of discipline too. I think that's the hard I think that's one of the hardest things is to have discipline. So if there's something that, you know, motivates you or inspires you, that what would that be? Aside from the failure, right? Like we know that part, but

Jamee Niles Yeah, you know, again, I don't I don't like to be bored. I don't know that I have a motto.

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Okay.

Jamee Niles but I I don't like to be bored. So I always want to be looking for something. you know, whether it's a new routine at the gym or whether it's, you know, finding a new type of client, or I don't know. I just, you know, I wake up in the morning, I come to my computer. I used to be very structured where I would set my day.

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Jamee Niles And now I don't do that because my day can go in five different ways. I could get a call from

Tiffany Scott I

Jamee Niles a new client. I could, you know, have a new connection. I just I guess my motto is to be prep like expect the unexpected, maybe.

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Jamee Niles you know, I it sounds a little cliche, but

Tiffany Scott That's i well, and it's also not a typical type A sort of way

Jamee Niles No.

Tiffany Scott to be.

Jamee Niles Well, and that's why I think, you know, again, if I was to a s do these personality assessments right now, I don't know that I'd be a high type A anymore. I think I would

Tiffany Scott You should, you should see what it is.

Jamee Niles I think I would maybe teeter in between a little bit because I I have

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm.

Jamee Niles definitely learned from somebody who could never relax before, I know how to relax now and I know how

Tiffany Scott Right.

Jamee Niles to slow down and take a step back. and I can also feel Because because it's different now, I know when I'm starting to get to that point where I need to go, uh-oh, like

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Okay.

Jamee Niles you know, I don't like where this is going. I need to take a step away or I need to take a step back. I take a break. I take a break.

Tiffany Scott Okay. And then what do you do? You take a break or are you Yeah.

Jamee Niles I'll shut my computer down. I will I won't look at my emails and you know, the other thing is when I worked in corporate, I was on my computer, I was on my email, on my phone all the time. My phone was right next to my bed. It was on. I was,

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Me too. Yep. Yep.

Jamee Niles I had to be in my mind, I had to be available in case somebody needed me.

Tiffany Scott Mm, mm.

Jamee Niles And that stress level or that pressure of doing that doesn't exist today. My clients aren't gonna

Tiffany Scott Well, yeah, good.

Jamee Niles call me at, you know, three o'clock in the morning. So at

Tiffany Scott Right.

Jamee Niles six o'clock, I can, you know, or five thirty, whatever it is, I can turn my phone on. I don't, but I could, right. Turn my phone off or not check my emails or not feel like I need to respond back to somebody. and the that's a huge difference.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles Just in in my personality, just in my stress level, to know that I can enjoy my evening and not have to

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles worry about it until 830 the next morning. That was a big shift for me. And again, you

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles would think owning your own business, you'd be like all over that

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm.

Jamee Niles and and maybe I'm not the typical business owner anymore.

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Jamee Niles I don't, you know, I'm not looking I want to maintain my business now. I want I want it to stay status quo. I'm not looking to grow it considerably more. obviously I don't want to lose clients, but if I can maintain this for the next few years, that's gonna be great for me. And then if I decide

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles I want to slow down at that point, daughter will be out of college, you know Things will be a little bit different in my life.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles You know, I want to take more time for myself than and I'm in a position to do that. That's my goal. That's where I want to get to, to be

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles able to to just slow down a little bit and enjoy my life and you know.

Tiffany Scott I think that's phenomenal. I think that's a great way to look at it. Did you did you ever think that you'd be in that mindset years ago and like and actually content with it?

Jamee Niles No. No. No. Yeah, I mean I always look, you know, my parents always instilled a a work in me.

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm.

Jamee Niles I worked, you know, from the time I could, I worked at thirteen, I was working in a bagel shop at up at five thirty in the morning on the weekends.

Tiffany Scott Wow.

Jamee Niles And it and I stayed with that for a few years and I I loved it. Like hard work was was instilled in me. and my brother and we are both successful. We're both hard workers. I've instilled that same thought in my kids. And my reward is now to be able to to step back a little bit. I've put my time in. I've raised my kids. They're both doing great. I'm

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right.

Jamee Niles have a great husband who is supportive. I have a business that I am enjoying. If I wasn't enjoying it, it'd be completely different. But I am

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles and so I just I feel like would I expect me to be in this position twenty years ago? Absolutely not. I would have expected me to still be sitting at a corporate desk, you know, doing the daily grind and being stressed out and you know, just being in in a complete and again, my my second marriage has a has had a a big impact on that for sure. Without a doubt.

Tiffany Scott Yeah, I bet. Yeah.

Jamee Niles So I'm lucky enough to surround myself with with people who are supportive of me and, you know, have taught me how to relax and,

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Jamee Niles you know, and take a step back and enjoy what's around me.

Tiffany Scott I think I think we'd all be a little bit better off if we could take that advice, Jamie. It's funny that God, I look back and why are we okay with why are we okay with that type of lifestyle? Why do we think that it's normal to be at somebody's back and call? You know, like we're not the business owners, you know, but we're the ones kind of making the money for them, right? at the end of the day. And but we put ours I think two, we put ourselves I know I did, I put myself in that position because you think that's how you can succeed. You think that's at and

Jamee Niles Sure. Absolutely. The harder you work.

Tiffany Scott I think you you have a very Palming nature about you. And

Jamee Niles Thank you.

Tiffany Scott and I've you know, and I'm taking a little bit away from this conversation, like, okay, maybe it's not all doom and gloom. Maybe it will work out. So I can't believe it's it's time. we've we've been chatting for quite a while.

Jamee Niles Yeah, I see that.

Tiffany Scott And and I've loved it. I wanna thank you so much. And I I'm so glad that we met and I'm so glad to see that, you know, you're doing well and I love your your motto. Well, you said you don't have a motto, but I think you do.

Jamee Niles it's

Tiffany Scott I think that, you know, s we're we're always so caught up with we gotta scale and we need to make millions and but your success is defined I think by how happy you are and how balanced you are with being able to shut things off and take control of of your life like you never were able to in the corporate world so I think that there's

Jamee Niles Yep, agreed.

Tiffany Scott a lot to be said and I think that's very courageous and we

Jamee Niles Thank you.

Tiffany Scott can learn a lot from from how you're doing it, Jamie.

Jamee Niles Well, thank you. I I enjoyed this conversation and I am very glad that you and I met and and we have a path forward and I'm excited for that as well.

Tiffany Scott Yeah, me too. Mm-hmm. Yes. Well, let's we'll regroup in a couple years when I'm in your position and we'll see if I've calmed down at

Jamee Niles Ha ha ha.

Tiffany Scott all. we'll see. I don't know about that. But but in the meantime, it's been great. I appreciate your time and hope we can do it again.

Jamee Niles Yes, thank you so much. I appreciate it as well.

Tiffany Scott All right, thanks, Jamie.

Jamee Niles All right, talk soon.