Out of Line Ep. 19 | A Teacher Said She Wouldn't Make It. Now She Builds Leaders | Kate McKinnon

Tiffany Scott like thinking back of how we were introduced and we weren't at first. We were we met each other through the best net is that is top the best networking group there's that ever lived?

Kate McKinnon It is the best. Yeah.

Tiffany Scott And I'm s ashamed. I've been, neglecting the groups a lot lately. my plan is to get back into it once let's get some good, rolling revenue. But it I still like to meet new the new people, but we are that's how we were introduced. And I think you reached out

Kate McKinnon Yeah. I love it.

Tiffany Scott to me first as a welcome. Yeah.

Kate McKinnon think so. Yeah. it's just one of those groups where it's so wonderful to meet new people that come into it. And

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon I've also really learned that I could literally talk to anybody in that group and take something that I did not know before.

Tiffany Scott Everybody.

Kate McKinnon it's amazing the people that are a part of that group.

Tiffany Scott I know, I remember so I joined in, I feel like it was early February maybe. how long have you been in? Yeah.

Kate McKinnon Over a year. Yep.

Tiffany Scott And I talked with Scott and I loved the fact that it's outliers, and I always felt like an outlier in a bad way. I was always getting in trouble for speaking up and I I read something this morning, and this was about toxic work environments, and it says, the second you Tell the truth in a toxic work environment, you're the problem. And I was like,

Kate McKinnon Very true.

Tiffany Scott that's a good, that's what I am, right? So, but anyway, I've

Kate McKinnon Yes.

Tiffany Scott always just done things differently. I was trained that way. I had mentors who were that way. So I get in the group and it was like a Saturday morning. I'm at the the gym, it's crack of dawn, and my phone is blowing up. And I'm like, what is going on? And it's Scott introducing me and announcing me to the group. And there's a hundred people sending me messages and welcomes. And I was like, this is different. Because I've

Kate McKinnon It is.

Tiffany Scott never been a part of that before where people were genuine.

Kate McKinnon Yeah, genuinely interested in in everybody and everything. And I think there's something really

Tiffany Scott Totally.

Kate McKinnon special about it not being industry specific because there's

Tiffany Scott Agreed.

Kate McKinnon there a there's a place for that for the industry specific

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon groups. I think they're important to, keep up with your knowledge and industry trends. But I was really looking for something, especially going out on my own, that

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm.

Kate McKinnon allowed me to really expand my creativity. And I

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon think. Being a part of something that has so many different types of people, so many different career paths, so many different places in people's careers

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon also has enabled me to think about my business, life, just everything in a completely

Tiffany Scott What do they?

Kate McKinnon different way. I feel like it's really expanded my view of literally everything. It's just been so phenomenal. Yeah.

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Same. And everybody I talk to is like, they lean in How can I help you? I just keep going back to genuine and you just don't see that in the world today. You just people are out for themselves, and but our group really understands that. The more you help others, the more comes back too. So it's it's really s yeah. Yeah.

Kate McKinnon Yeah. Yeah, it's the abundance mindset, right? There's plenty of success for everybody. And the

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon more we help one another, the more, rising tide rises all boats, lifts all boats. Rising tide lifts all boats. Yeah. So that mindset

Tiffany Scott Yes, lift so yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Kate McKinnon as opposed to if you're successful, it takes away from my ability to be successful, which I never believed anyway.

Tiffany Scott Don't you feel like ne me well, I probably no, I never did, but I think I was maybe a victim to it when I was younger. Because

Kate McKinnon Yeah.

Tiffany Scott I think women and young, when you're immature, you get sucked into that, the jealousy thing. And, now it's like, no, you can be successful, and that doesn't mean it's my failure. And I feel like women a lot

Kate McKinnon Mm-hmm.

Tiffany Scott of times are sucked into that mindset and we're because we're too threatened and it's it's a s it's very sad.

Kate McKinnon Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Tiffany Scott thank goodness I grew out of that and I've always tried to be mindful of

Kate McKinnon Yeah.

Tiffany Scott that those those indicators or behaviors, you see it sometimes in women's groups. I'm like, mm, they're not always as helpful, unfortunately. But

Kate McKinnon Yeah, it's interesting because a lot of the companies that I work with are just these hyper competitive type environments. And trying

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon to really explain that that abundance my mindset is actually better and different. It it allows you to think about things differently. It allows you to put different energy out in the world, is is really it's challenging for those groups to understand that. Yes, you can still be competitive and also want other people to be successful. Mm-hmm.

Tiffany Scott Yeah. We used to talk about the flywheel, that there there's a that philosophy in the book, Goods are great. And it's like get everybody pushing

Kate McKinnon Mm-hmm.

Tiffany Scott in the same direction and you have the best momentum. And it's

Kate McKinnon No trial.

Tiffany Scott so true. And guess what? You're all competing, but you're competing for the same goal.

Kate McKinnon Yes.

Tiffany Scott Which when that happens, you're unstoppable. And not many

Kate McKinnon Yes.

Tiffany Scott organizations especially can understand that piece. How

Kate McKinnon So true.

Tiffany Scott So when you recognize that, so let's back up a little bit. just walk me through exactly what you're doing with companies and you have your own consulting business.

Kate McKinnon Mm-hmm.

Tiffany Scott You come from, the fun corporate world, right?

Kate McKinnon I do. Yeah.

Tiffany Scott and now you are a powerhouse out on your own. tell us about your your story and and then I'd love to hear my ultimate goal is to hear. How do you actually address those types of of companies with that mindset? But we'll get there.

Kate McKinnon Yeah, so so my story, super non-traditional. started in

Tiffany Scott Hmm.

Kate McKinnon the nonprofit space, transitioned into sales, was in sales for about 10 years, and during my time in sales, continued to come up against the same type of problem where you would have really talented sellers being promoted to leadership roles and failing, and also making everybody's lives miserable because they just

Tiffany Scott Yes.

Kate McKinnon did not know how to lead a team.

Tiffany Scott No, and nobody teaches them.

Kate McKinnon Yeah, nobody teaches them. And, I became fascinated with number one, why are companies not doing this? Why are they not equipping their leaders with proper training? But also, why why is that the only way to move up through an organization, right? You're almost setting people up for failure if the only way to move up is to lead people. So I went back to school. I got my master's

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon in leadership development and was disappointed that everything that I was really interested in fell under the HR umbrella. in sales, your

Tiffany Scott interesting, yeah.

Kate McKinnon your whole goal is to stay off the radar of HR. So I was like, I don't know I want to do that. so I

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon I I entered into the HR world through training and development lens and then proceeded to start to build and scale HR teams in healthcare organizations. So

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon was was with healthcare organizations throughout COVID and actually left during COVID because the responsibility of being responsible for thousands of clinicians was just

Tiffany Scott Oof. Yeah.

Kate McKinnon exhausting. and HR teams were burning out just across the board during that time. so I left and then I transitioned into sports, which I had candidly never ever, ever considered a career in the sports space. I

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon always was a fan, I loved sports, but never thought to work in sports. So it was my first

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm.

Kate McKinnon entry into that. And I just fell in love with it. worked for a fast growing media startup, helped to grow that company from about 200 employees to almost a thousand employees

Tiffany Scott Wow.

Kate McKinnon over a little over a little over three years. And and then decided to go out on my own.

Tiffany Scott That's that's that's awesome. Wow.

Kate McKinnon Yeah, yeah. I loved it. I it was the best place I've ever worked. I love the people. it was just I just felt like it was the right time for me to take a leap. And and so that's what I did. So

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon so now I I've almost two years in and on the client side work with organizations that are fast paced, super competitive, mostly sports still or sports adjacent.

Tiffany Scott Right,

Kate McKinnon That, need help with building and structuring and scaling their HR teams, leadership development,

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Kate McKinnon executive coaching, and culture building, and really keeping your eye on that as a company scales and grows. And then I

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon do coaching for people in transition. So new grads, former athletes, and veterans tend to be my core, my core group. Yeah. Yeah. It's a weird story.

Tiffany Scott Right. Yeah. That is a lot. So when you Yeah. So weird, but no, it is non-traditional, I'll give you that.

Kate McKinnon It is non traditional.

Tiffany Scott when you decided to go out on your own, what was that final I'm doing it, this is gonna be my last day moment for you.

Kate McKinnon I I don't there were a couple of things that led to that decision. I had been toying with it for maybe nine months, 10 months. I wasn't really sure what exactly I was going to do when I made the decision, but I but I knew that I couldn't have one foot in both. I knew I couldn't just start a business

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon on my own while still working full time because I was working a insane number of hours and

Tiffany Scott Sure.

Kate McKinnon it was just it was it was foot on the gas for three and a half years. and so for me can't candidly it was really a burnout. I was

Tiffany Scott Ooh.

Kate McKinnon burnt out. it

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon was bad and friends and family were like, What are you doing at this point? you really

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon you need to to really rethink the role of workplace in your in your

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon life because that was how I'd always defined myself, always by what I was doing in the workplace, by

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon this success and and really building these teams. and yeah, I just I took a step back and I thought, wow, that they're right. They're right. And I'm not my best self just in general. I I don't feel healthy. I'm

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon exhausted. I'm giving everything I can to this and and so I just, I just one day was like, I'm just not going to do this anymore.

Tiffany Scott Wow. Good for you. Cause that's

Kate McKinnon Yeah, it was just like a switch. Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany Scott you still have to have a lot of courage to do it.

Kate McKinnon Scary.

Tiffany Scott It is. although and and you think about when you get to that place of burnout, how did how did you find a new direction, a new passion? it's like you're so burned out. What what ignites you at that point?

Kate McKinnon Not much. not much ignited me at that point.

Tiffany Scott Right.

Kate McKinnon I knew that I couldn't continue doing what I was doing. I

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon knew that I had the foundation to build my own business, but I wasn't

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon really sure what exactly it was going to look like. And so I committed to taking a month with nothing. I was like,

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Kate McKinnon I'm not gonna do anything. I'm just gonna reflect on what it is that I envision for myself, in the next 10, 15, 20 years.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon And I it was Very late one night, I couldn't sleep, which had been a recurring theme, as many of us are very well aware of.

Tiffany Scott Mm. Right.

Kate McKinnon and I picked up a book by Kathleen Griffith called Build. And it's

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon a blueprint, literally, for how to build your own business. And it just

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon I don't even know why I bought it. I bought it and it was just one of those things where it was sitting out and I was like, I'm just gonna take a look at it. And I read it and it was like a light bulb. went off.

Tiffany Scott Wow.

Kate McKinnon And I was like, okay, this actually shows me how to take the steps that I need to take to make this a reality.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon and as a matter of fact, I highlighted some sections in the book. And that night, it was like 3 a.m. I sent a LinkedIn message to Kathleen, the author, and I said, I just want to let you know this has completely changed the way that I'm thinking about my future. And she wrote

Tiffany Scott Well

Kate McKinnon back and she was like, I'm so glad that this resonated. And I was like, okay,

Tiffany Scott That's so cool.

Kate McKinnon this is This is what it's supposed to be. Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany Scott That's a sign. Yeah. Wow. I love that story.

Kate McKinnon Yeah, it's a fun one.

Tiffany Scott So what was the beginning like when you first when you decided, okay, this is what I'm gonna do, this is how I'm gonna tackle it. what is the first six months? Yeah.

Kate McKinnon Really scary. Really, really scary. what I committed to doing is because my schedule with my former role was just 12 hour days were just a normal thing.

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon So I decided I'm gonna stick with that pace for the first six months and I'm

Tiffany Scott Okay. Yeah.

Kate McKinnon going to set up between 30 and 50, 30 minute get-to-know-you calls with people, just like this, just face

Tiffany Scott Okay. Yeah.

Kate McKinnon to face. learn as much as I can, learn from as many people as I can, connect with as many people as I can. And so the first six months, that's all I did. And I I joined top as a part of that. and then that increased the calls, the touch points. and so I I really just committed to being very present and connecting with as many people as I could. and I just for some reason felt like there will be some clarity as I go through

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon this process.

Tiffany Scott And was it anybody in particular like a type of it was just like whoever

Kate McKinnon Yep.

Tiffany Scott you thought you wanted to meet with?

Kate McKinnon Yep. No, no real rhyme or reason. I connected with business owners. I connected with entrepreneurs. I connected with solopreneurs. I connected with head head of HR, CHROs and other businesses. I connected with industry adjacent professionals, networking

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Kate McKinnon groups. I just wanted to meet as many people as I could. And I'd already had a pretty decent network, but I wanted to be very intentional with cultivating the network that I had.

Tiffany Scott what results came out of that for you?

Kate McKinnon So I took a lot of advice in. That was

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon a lot. People were very freely giving me tons of advice on how to do it, how to start

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon your own business, how to make that transition.

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon and I took all of that in. And one thing that kept replaying was this idea that I needed to niche down, that I didn't have really a value proposition that made sense. I

Tiffany Scott right.

Kate McKinnon needed to niche down. So during that six months, I really tried to do that. And it felt

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm.

Kate McKinnon Completely inauthentic to me. And so I

Tiffany Scott interesting. Yeah.

Kate McKinnon decided to take the opposite approach, which was I'm just going to do stuff I love and projects that I'm interested in. And

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon so I started reaching out when I would see projects or I would see a gap for, an organization. Maybe they were hiring for an HR professional leadership development. They were interested in investing back. And then I would reach out and say, Are you, do you have any interest? I just started my business. I I'm really cheap and I'll do the work. And then I

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon started to get more and more clients that way. Yeah.

Tiffany Scott Wow. So what are the so y y did you already mention them? The the sports, the transitions, the veterans, and this is what you love. And then sports companies.

Kate McKinnon Yeah. So almost all of my almost all of my clients are sports it sports adjacent, sports organizations. but I also have some very highly competitive. I have some healthcare clients, I have some high-end

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Kate McKinnon retail clients. So anywhere I I feel like my niche, if I have to have one, is

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon very, very competitive, highly successful businesses where

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon they they claim to not Have that much time to train and develop their people.

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Kate McKinnon And so I talk about why it's critical that you do that and why it's not necessarily that you're putting more work into it, but the work that you're doing is more effective. And

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon so I do a lot of work with companies like that, talking about

Tiffany Scott And

Kate McKinnon leadership.

Tiffany Scott and do you put plans in place for them? How does that work when you when you first decide to work with a company and they want to work with you? What happens?

Kate McKinnon Yeah. Yeah. So a a lot of fact finding. So I really need to understand what it is that you're looking for. What is what are you trying to change? What are you trying to make better? What are you trying to stop doing? So I do a full

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm.

Kate McKinnon assessment, speaking usually with the leadership team, really understanding what their goal is for engaging

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon me. and it's different for every client. So some clients they're looking to scale and they want to make sure their culture stays. That smaller

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon organization feel as they continue

Tiffany Scott Right.

Kate McKinnon to scale. Some don't have a lot of structure around the people function. Maybe they have a head of people or a director of human resources that has been in the weeds, doesn't have the ability to be strategic, needs a thought partner. So I'll work hand in hand with them. So some of them, it's building a full training program, succession planning, making sure that they have redundancy and key roles. some of

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon them it's system implementation, engagement and surveying

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Kate McKinnon and and really on that discovery

Tiffany Scott Wow.

Kate McKinnon from their teams. So it's really different for for everybody, but that's

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon what I love is being able to come in and and create a plan that's very specific to the companies that I work with.

Tiffany Scott Yeah, it actually sounds like it could be a lot of fun. Just especially the discovery part part

Kate McKinnon It's so much fun. I loved it.

Tiffany Scott of it. And do you make promises? Do you say, this is how it's gonna look at the end of working with me? how do you I know consulting always is fascinating to me because it like you said, it looks different everywhere. So

Kate McKinnon Yeah.

Tiffany Scott what is it that they're trying to get commitment from you on?

Kate McKinnon So I think it depends. I'm a big measure constantly person and adjust as you go, as opposed to

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm. Right.

Kate McKinnon I work with you for a year and then we determine if if I've been, impactful in your goals. I want real-time feedback and and we want to make sure that we're getting that also from the people that I'm working with. So if it's an executive coaching engagement, there's, a midpoint touch point, there's an end touch point. And then, they have access to me throughout the engagement to determine. Is this person really doing what they need to do to continue to develop? For programs,

Tiffany Scott Right.

Kate McKinnon a lot of it is again just this constant feedback, getting

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon feedback from employees that are engaged in the programs, understanding if they have metrics that they're looking to hit. But most of the time it's I'm helping them develop the metrics for measurement too, because they don't really

Tiffany Scott Mm. Mm-hmm.

Kate McKinnon have much in place.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon So it's like this is how you can measure the impact, and and we'll go ahead and do that together.

Tiffany Scott How did you know you were gonna be really good at this?

Kate McKinnon my gosh, I don't I I I am learning every single day. And I tell people

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Kate McKinnon every single day, there are gonna be questions that people ask me or things that come up that I have no idea how to handle. I need to lean on other people. I think part of doing something and being successful at it is recognizing that you don't have all the answers. You're never going to know all the things. So

Tiffany Scott Mm. Yeah.

Kate McKinnon I know where to find them. I have an incredible. Incredible network of resources that I can reach out to if I hit a roadblock or have a question.

Tiffany Scott Right.

Kate McKinnon but I don't ever think that's it. I'm I'm good. I've figured it all out. I learned

Tiffany Scott Right, right.

Kate McKinnon something new every day.

Tiffany Scott That's very humble, very encouraging answer, actually. And that would be something I'd want somebody who's telling my business, how to change things. That's how I'd want them

Kate McKinnon Yeah.

Tiffany Scott their outlook to be for sure. Because, that's

Kate McKinnon Yeah, yeah.

Tiffany Scott that's more of a healthy way to look at it and especially a good example to set for the people you're working with.

Kate McKinnon Yeah, nobody has it all figured out. And one thing could change in the middle of an engagement. You could lose a key leader, you could have a a

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon big hit in the market. there's so many things that could change that you

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon have to be able to move, move with that and adjust.

Tiffany Scott Yeah. How how many clients do you work with at a time?

Kate McKinnon So I only take on two fractional clients at a time. So

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon where I'm literally trying to stand up their entire HR process

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon or a portion of their HR process where I'm doing, ongoing consulting and advising, coaching, training, about 15 hours a week per client.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon and then I take on other clients that are more project based. So We need you to come in and do a training and development plan for three sessions or we need you to coach an executive for six months. so I'll take on, five to ten of those also.

Tiffany Scott have you ever had to decline a client 'cause you felt like they weren't going to step up or have the right culture? what were w were there multiple? Was there one in particular?

Kate McKinnon my only caveat to working typically with a a client is that they have to be just as invested as I am.

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon Because if I can't come in and change your culture, that's

Tiffany Scott Right.

Kate McKinnon impossible. One person can't do that. so I need to have a champion, a team, somebody within the organization that is owning it. side by side and that there's a commitment to being uncomfortable and hearing difficult feedback and

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kate McKinnon that we're gonna going to do this together. so I have absolutely had to decline work because that is not the case or the value is not necessarily there where they want somebody to

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon come in and say, I'm gonna change the culture.

Tiffany Scott Right.

Kate McKinnon and I I just am a firm believer. I I can't do that. I'm not a miracle worker. I have no idea. I don't know how people

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon can come in and say, yes, I can do all of these things without having

Tiffany Scott No.

Kate McKinnon that buy-in.

Tiffany Scott I think that would be a red flag actually. so

Kate McKinnon Huge. Huge.

Tiffany Scott how have you been able to present that? in a world where all we want is business roll

Kate McKinnon Yeah.

Tiffany Scott rolling through the door, it is hard. I'm sure the sale 'cause it doesn't the salesperson in you, does that conflict sometimes with your

Kate McKinnon Mm-hmm.

Tiffany Scott the entrepreneur in you?

Kate McKinnon It's a really good question. Yeah. I think it did initially, where I felt like I had to take anything because I just needed to work.

Tiffany Scott Right. Mm. Yeah.

Kate McKinnon and I I had somebody reach out to me very early on, who I adore. Her name is Allie Sichel, and she's a talent acquisition consultant. and she builds and stands up really, really solid talent acquisition support for organizations. And she reached out to me unsolicited when I went out on my own. And she said, let me know if I can ever help. I would love to help you navigate this process. So I took her up on that. And she was so lovely. And the piece of advice that she gave me is don't be afraid to fire your bad clients. You're gonna have them and you're going to run into them and just

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon know that at some point you're gonna make a mistake. You're either not gonna get paid or you're gonna take a client that is not the right fit for

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon you and use that as a learning lesson. Don't take that as something that indicates that you've failed. And so,

Tiffany Scott Great advice.

Kate McKinnon and everybody has those stories, right? Where they haven't gotten

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon paid by somebody or they've put trust in somebody and it hasn't panned out. and so, I think I really set that stage up front that the goal is to determine if we're a good fit together. And sometimes it's just not. It's like working with any kind of business and

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Kate McKinnon And that's important, I think, that you set that expectation.

Tiffany Scott And did you have to learn the lesson anyway?

Kate McKinnon Yes.

Tiffany Scott So what happened? I know, isn't that the way? You still have to go through the motions. Yeah, what happened?

Kate McKinnon It's always the way. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I did a lot of work, a lot of prep work for a client that was 100% going to move forward and asked me for the business plan and asked me to put together all of the materials and I did all of the things and submitted it over and was waiting to get paid up front. And they said, Well, they ghosted me for quite a while and then finally said, we've made the decision to move forward with another consultant. Well, they also

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon had all of my stuff.

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon So it was, I'm glad it happened early on because it was a good lesson.

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Yeah.

Kate McKinnon but yeah, that that is a terrible feeling. and it can really knock

Tiffany Scott Right.

Kate McKinnon you down, but but it's a learning lesson. You need those.

Tiffany Scott What did totally. To what did you change after that about your approach or your process?

Kate McKinnon I required much more commitment financially

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon up front before I did the work.

Tiffany Scott Cotta

Kate McKinnon and I think that that it it's hard because sometimes you'll have clients that'll say, Well, yeah, can you just give us this so that we can understand and then we'll pay you? So absolutely, but then I'm going to be charging an hourly fee and a project fee and and all of that. So

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Kate McKinnon I think it helped me Set some boundaries, which has

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon always been a challenge, it's usually a challenge for people in HR, but certainly has always been a challenge for me. But now that you're in business for yourself, you don't have this is how you're making your living. So if somebody doesn't want to pay you for your time and and your work and a business plan, are they really the right partner for you? Yeah.

Tiffany Scott Right. No, absolutely not. don't you just feel like you can trust more people than you actually can? And maybe not so much

Kate McKinnon yeah.

Tiffany Scott anymore, since you've been doing this for a few years now, but I think every I I'm st I again, like we were talking earlier. I feel like I'm back in the beginning of my career. I'm a little twenty-one year old back in the workforce, doing my little sales calls

Kate McKinnon Yep.

Tiffany Scott and thinking everybody's gonna show up to the meetings. why wouldn't they wanna meet with me? It's so funny. I feel so inside

Kate McKinnon Yeah.

Tiffany Scott out after twenty years of being a badass, teaching people how to do this, and now I'm back in that that rookie saddle again, the boundaries comment you made is somebody said to me the other day, quoted and I can't remember the quote. Now it's gonna drive me nuts, but it said something about relationships with no boundaries are never successful. They're just always a disaster, always unsuccessful. And it's so true. you're just so it's so lopsided and you become a doormat no matter how tough you are, if you're on that small side of the whatever you call it, the boundary line, right? Yeah.

Kate McKinnon Yeah. Yeah, you can feel really taken advantage of. And I think I've always been really and having a career in sales has taught me, I if I hear no, if if there's a rejection, I don't take it personally, genuinely. I'm like, okay, sounds good. And I just move right on. So I'm very resilient in that way, which I think you have

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Kate McKinnon to be. I will not and again, this is now almost two years in. I don't have to chase business now, which is an amazing

Tiffany Scott Mm. That's great.

Kate McKinnon blessing. but

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon in the beginning, there is this well, why don't you want to work with me? Come on, like I'm telling you, you want to work with me, right? And it's just like sales. if you come at

Tiffany Scott Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Kate McKinnon things from a place of desperation or a place

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon of need, then people are like, I don't really need it.

Tiffany Scott It's so funny I'll be sending emails and I'll be getting ghosts. It's like, all right, well, we had this next step and you're not responding. The second I send somebody, and these are like CEOs and owners, the second I send, hey, if you ever want to reprioritize me on your schedule, I'm here, but for now and I'll say, I'm not chasing you. It's not my style.

Kate McKinnon Yep. Yep.

Tiffany Scott I can't tell you how many times I get an immediate meeting on my calendar. I'm like, really? the psychology in that just floors me. And it's a risk to send that because they might just delete you and keep moving. But it more times than not, I get a reaction and then get another meeting.

Kate McKinnon It's so true. It's so true. And I think a lot of it too comes back to like I try to explain, especially with leaders, if you're not responding to your teams, people naturally, if they don't have an explanation or a reason or a story for something, they automatically come to

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon their own conclusions and they're almost never good. Right. So giving

Tiffany Scott yeah.

Kate McKinnon a little bit of context is really important. And what I find is that the reason that companies, CEOs will respond to that type of communication is because it's not that they're ignoring you, they're just busy. And it's easy to overlook the

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Yeah.

Kate McKinnon just constant barrage of emails that they're

Tiffany Scott yeah.

Kate McKinnon getting. And so it's just not it's not that they're not prioritizing you or the project or the work. They're just not responding because they have other things that are taking priority. So it's very similar.

Tiffany Scott Totally. And this the second you throw some urgency is like, okay, we might actually lose this, and then you see who your real potential partners could be. But it is a

Kate McKinnon Yeah.

Tiffany Scott risky little move, i in the beginning, especially. Thanks.

Kate McKinnon It is. Yeah. And good for you though, because I think that, it doesn't feel good when you're chasing somebody for something. When you're in that co you almost feel like you're pestering someone or nagging. And that just

Tiffany Scott Totally.

Kate McKinnon doesn't feel good. So

Tiffany Scott if it's somebody that I've spoken with already, it's like, come on, we we're adults, we're both business owners. I'm not and not that I'm looking down at an an entry level sales rep, but that's almost how I'm like, I wonder how they actually treat a s entry level sales rep. So sometimes

Kate McKinnon Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Tiffany Scott you gotta throw your authority back at them and See where it lands. I think you're right. I don't want those kind of partnerships either. I was working with somebody who just was even in just the prospecting period was very high maintenance and very just complainy. and there's a fine line between what is customer service and getting good feedback, especially I'm building a software, so I need that. But where do you draw the line at okay, this is probably setting a precedence for how our relationship is gonna be

Kate McKinnon Yeah.

Tiffany Scott even after you're and especially after you're paying,

Kate McKinnon Yes. Yep.

Tiffany Scott it's tough. It's tough to make those calls and and let them and let them go. But you gotta throw out those boundaries before you get walked all over.

Kate McKinnon Yes.

Tiffany Scott And then you're servicing, twenty four seven one particular client 'cause they're so high maintenance and you've and you've done that. You've done that. Right?

Kate McKinnon Yes. And that happens with individuals too. in organizations like I've done that

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon just in my role as a head of HR, where you're giving it, so much time and attention to maybe one person because they need a little bit more care. They need a little bit more hand holding. And then before

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon you know it, you've created the behavior that you're you would likely avoid if that was presented to you like this person's gonna be reaching out to you 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon but you're enabling that and creating that. And it's the same with clients. Yeah. So hard.

Tiffany Scott it's so hard to rewind it too. Once you've and then you and you won't reali realize it until it's too late half the time. It's bad, always bad, always bad.

Kate McKinnon Right. Right. It's so hard. It's so hard to find the balance of everything when you're running your own business is just so complicated. Mm-hmm.

Tiffany Scott It really is. it really is. one of the one of my podcast guys, his name is Ronnie Hollis. He owns a staffing company. one of the biggest takeaways I got from him was that there's a difference between being a CEO and a founder. He's something you have to make that cut over eventually. He's like, if you're always l thinking like a founder, you'll never Be strategic. be the the founder during these set hours, a CEO during these set hours, and get yourself to move away from that founder title eventually. And I was like, wow, I never thought of that before. And it

Kate McKinnon Yeah, that's great.

Tiffany Scott really put into perspective. So I was talking to somebody else about this who just founded his own company. I was like, I can't wait to not be a founder anymore. I thought it was such a fancy, exciting title. And now I'm like, I can't wait to drop it, till then I'll know, I've made it. Yep, I did that. that was an accomplishment. And now I've graduated into the CEO role. That means I can work on my business. I can work on strategy and not do all the admin and the, tiny little like you gotta do your own website and you gotta be in the weeds on everything. So I just thought

Kate McKinnon Mm. I love that perspective.

Tiffany Scott I do a lot of podcasts about staffing and that's my background, that's still my business supporting staffing, and you've been on the other side of it in the corporate world. how did you as a client it's you use staffing companies in the past?

Kate McKinnon So when I was in healthcare, I specifically was the head of HR for the staffing side of the business. And so we did not use additional staffing companies. We had our own internal talent acquisition team, yeah, that went

Tiffany Scott Interesting. that's good.

Kate McKinnon out and found the nurses, the therapists, the clinicians. We had pharmacy

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon at one point and locums, so the the phys

Tiffany Scott Right.

Kate McKinnon physician side. But yeah, we had our own internal team. So I managed the internal team, but then also I was responsible for all the clinicians that we staffed.

Tiffany Scott so were the clinicians you extern hired externally or still external? So who

Kate McKinnon External. Yep.

Tiffany Scott how did you how did you use services for the clinicians?

Kate McKinnon So we would place them at our client facilities, whether it was a hospital, an office, a pediatric center, assisted living, that was a big portion of what we did. So we would actually place them with our clients. Yeah.

Tiffany Scott okay. So you were like the staffing. You were literally the s like the your own staffing company. That's great. Now,

Kate McKinnon One hundred percent. Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany Scott how did you guys get to that point and why do you think that you were able to do that and not need additional resources or want additional resources versus companies that that do? staffing is what, two hundred billion dollars across the the globe

Kate McKinnon Yeah.

Tiffany Scott industry. So how did you guys get to that point?

Kate McKinnon Yeah, it's a good question. So when I worked for I worked for Genesis Healthcare, which is skilled nursing primarily.

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm.

Kate McKinnon and a division within that was called Career Staff Unlimited. And so

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Kate McKinnon they were, it was an acquisition at the time. They had acquired the organization, and Career Staff Unlimited was made up of lots of other acquisitions. So

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Kate McKinnon All of the clinical specialties were all acquired and put under the umbrella of Career Staff Unlimited. And so,

Tiffany Scott Interesting.

Kate McKinnon yeah, so when I came on board, they were looking to have them all feel like they were Career Staff Unlimited, as opposed to identifying themselves as these what I would say as more family-owned, smaller staffing companies that now are a part of something bigger, and then

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Okay.

Kate McKinnon ultimately how does this all roll up to Genesis healthcare? So that was a

Tiffany Scott Right.

Kate McKinnon big portion of of what I did. we

Tiffany Scott Wow.

Kate McKinnon didn't use we didn't need to use other staffing organizations while we were there because

Tiffany Scott Yeah. It makes sense.

Kate McKinnon we had, we were decentralized, we had 30 something offices across the country and they were all filled with recruiting teams that would go out

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon and recruit and sell.

Tiffany Scott It seems like it's almost the same model though. It was just that you had the internal the the internal piece of it, but you guys

Kate McKinnon Yes.

Tiffany Scott bought staffing you bought staffing companies, is what you're saying, right? That's interesting. That's really cool. What I what I find

Kate McKinnon Correct. Yeah. Yeah. So it was all acquisition based.

Tiffany Scott what I still what I find really interesting is that and I think this is where there's such a benefit to staffing. Of course I'm biased, you it's my most of my career in it. But it's

Kate McKinnon Yeah.

Tiffany Scott like, okay, you as genesists, your thing is all right, nursing, right? Skilled nurses. That's what you need to be good at. And and that should be your core focus is running your business. What's not is recruiting, right? But you guys

Kate McKinnon Yes.

Tiffany Scott seem to have married the two. That's why I just think that there's so such a benefit to using a staffing company because that's a hundred percent of their job. When you have a smaller in internal team, it's like they're always split in a million d different directions. But you guys did it a very interesting, unique way. And you rarely hear

Kate McKinnon Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Tiffany Scott that a s a company bought their own staffing division. That's cool.

Kate McKinnon Yeah, yeah. And what's really interesting, and still, I still am such a proponent of organizations utilizing staffing companies. As a matter

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon of fact, the individual I mentioned before, I have placed her with other staffing comp with other

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Kate McKinnon organizations to support their recruiting efforts. I think

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon especially when you have a smaller team, there's so many reasons to hire a staffing company, but when you

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon have a smaller team, they're not able to Keep up with all the compliance regulations and all of the interviewing

Tiffany Scott yeah.

Kate McKinnon rules and all laws and all of that. If you're hiring for people across the country, having a presence in multi-states, making sure that you are utilizing the tools available to recruiters and talent acquisition professionals, those are also expensive, those tools. So you can have a company that is dealing with that expense and then providing. really, really talented professionals to you that then you can, further screen for the role. So instead

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon of having to do all of the pieces of the talent acquisition process, you're aligning with a staffing company and figuring out where they hand off and where you take over. And it

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon can just be such a time saving, cost saving, there's a million

Tiffany Scott Totally.

Kate McKinnon reasons to utilize staffing.

Tiffany Scott Especially when you find the right partner. I know it stopping companies have a bad name a lot of times because there are some bad ones out there that ruin it for the rest of us. But isn't that every industry? there's always the bad

Kate McKinnon Every industry.

Tiffany Scott seeds. So it's interesting to hear your perspective and I I think this goes back to what you were saying is like it's not that they're rejecting you. They're just really, really busy. from your perspective on that side, It's so hard to make an initial introduction if you don't have somebody making the introduction for you, right? what is the best way to get your attention as an executive to say, I actually have a really good service?

Kate McKinnon Yeah.

Tiffany Scott how do I get your attention?

Kate McKinnon You have to solve a problem. you have

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon to solve a problem that's real and existing. So, I think with any kind of sales, right, you're never gonna sell anything where you come in somewhere and say, This is what I can do for you. Right. You don't even know if they need what you can do. So it's really

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kate McKinnon uncovering what it is that are the biggest challenges in the organization. So looking for organizations that are in like hypergrowth mode, looking for acquisitions that have had, or looking for companies that have had recent investments, looking for ac companies that are, really growing and you see this promotion constantly. So succession

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon planning is is of importance. Then they might

Tiffany Scott Right.

Kate McKinnon need more entry level teams. high turnover industries

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon are also a really good way to get in front of people that, solving a a recruiting problem. Once you're able to do that and get in front of a person that's actually experiencing the problem, they will welcome you with open arms because they it is such a challenge that if you can do

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Yeah.

Kate McKinnon it well, they're so grateful to have the support and help. I think what happens

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon is that usually it's HR teams that are responsible for it. Usually it's the talent acquisition teams that sit underneath the HR teams.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon And there is a concern that the handoff will not be smooth or you're bringing somebody in that's not an expert in the way that your team might be an expert. And so there's,

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon overcoming things like how competent am I? What is my approach? How do I integrate with your team? what are the what are the things that are important for us to be successful together? What does communication look like between us? Are we touching base once a week? Are we touching base twice a week? So being very clear in expectations and what you've seen success, like what you've seen working and what has not worked in the past, and being really, really clear with that. I think typically the negative experiences that people have with staffing agencies. really could be overcome by more clear communication and clear expectations out of the gate.

Tiffany Scott Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that half the battle of most relationships? I swear.

Kate McKinnon Yeah, a hundred percent.

Tiffany Scott That's such good advice. And now I gotta I gotta go back and make sure all my outreach is not spuking of what I think I can do for you. That's a really good light bulb moment for everybody.

Kate McKinnon Yeah. Well and also keep in mind too that I get no less than ten messages in LinkedIn a day

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Kate McKinnon selling me something.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon Selling me something. I almost never even read them anymore. I just delete them all because unless

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon unless you're responding to something that is like geared towards me in particular.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon I just look at it and I'm like, you're sending this to a thousand people and you're just hoping that one person clicks on it.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon And I want, I want somebody that I have a relationship with.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon And so I think that's the biggest challenge with any kind of sales right now is getting in front of people in a way

Tiffany Scott Way.

Kate McKinnon that is more relationship forward. So whether that's

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon in person, whether that's, community building, like networking, live, I think that can help too. But

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon yeah, the the constant influx of sales messages is it it plays against you, unfortunately.

Tiffany Scott So hard. It it does. What's your approach? What were you doing that was getting the most let's say, meaningful meetings? Cause I think too, it's like we can get all kinds of meetings with just anybody, but something that was actually gonna move the needle for you.

Kate McKinnon I I people probably hate to hear this, but I didn't really do any kind of sales or BD outreach at all. I I haven't done any of that. I've been really fortunate. But my my meetings and calls that have been set up are genuinely I just want to learn more about you, learn more about your business,

Tiffany Scott That's great.

Kate McKinnon how I I'd love to just connect. And

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon so our conversations have. conversations with everybody that I've connected with are never really centered around business. They're more centered

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon around what's what are you doing? How can I help you? How can I introduce you to someone?

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Yeah.

Kate McKinnon and then the business has come from people just saying, hey, we talked five months ago and you asked if you could do anything for me. And

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon I didn't really know what you could do, but now I have this need, or I have a friend that has a need. And so that's all

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon of my business has come from. LinkedIn or referrals. so just yeah. Yeah. and it's genuine

Tiffany Scott That's great. I think that's really smart. Really smart way to have done it.

Kate McKinnon I just love to learn about other people and what they're doing and experiencing in the market. So,

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon so I don't know if that's I don't know how good that advice is because I just

Tiffany Scott So it's the long game, which is very hard to accept when you're,

Kate McKinnon Yeah.

Tiffany Scott in a pr really high pressure job, even for somebody who's in a sales role within an organization, there's so much pressure and metrics, and you gotta hit X amount of goals and whether it be somebody else's the boss telling you that you need to or if it's your own business and you just need it because you don't have a backup plan. The long game

Kate McKinnon Yeah.

Tiffany Scott is the toughest one to accept and really find a good steady strategy for. yeah. And I feel like

Kate McKinnon It's so true. Yeah, it's so true. Yeah, the immediate gratification and that immediate need sometimes is the thing that's driving you more than, let me just sit back and have a nice conversation with someone.

Tiffany Scott I know, let's get to it. Can you buy today?

Kate McKinnon Yeah. Yeah, it's hard. It's hard. Yeah.

Tiffany Scott Yes. It really is. It really is. I love your energy. you have humility, you have stability, you still have a a confidence about you. Would you say a lot of this is natural? Did you just always have a common kind of personality where you saw that strategy? Are these things you had to learn lessons for? How did you get to this place?

Kate McKinnon my gosh. Well, thank you. First of all, it's very kind.

Tiffany Scott Hmm.

Kate McKinnon my road has not been super easy. I've had a lot of challenges. I've had a lot of adversity,

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon and and through that I I have leaned on this like you you've been able to figure it out every other time. So,

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon you'll figure it out again. And I just don't I don't really have that really negative. you can't do it self-talk. I've been very lucky to have a lot of people around me

Tiffany Scott Mm. Good for you.

Kate McKinnon that are like, yeah, you can do it. Figure it out. and that's always been the way that I've lived my life, honestly.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon is that, everybody has some people have it way better than you, some people have it way less, way worse than you.

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm.

Kate McKinnon but, at the end of the day, you need to just make things happen that that you think you can make

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon things happen.

Tiffany Scott That's awesome. What

Kate McKinnon Yeah.

Tiffany Scott you mentioned adversity. what stands out as as something where you faced adversity

Kate McKinnon I was an awful student, awful. I had a learning disability. I was, I had a teacher tell me when I had asked her for a college recommendation to give you an idea of how bad of a student I was, told me that she couldn't write a recommendation because she didn't think I would be successful in college. So, yes. So

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon I have always had a okay, well, I'm gonna prove it

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon a mindset. and so

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon I'm so grateful for for that. because it hasn't been easy, but yeah, I've always felt very comfortable just saying, Well, I'm gonna figure it out and I'm gonna show you that you're wrong.

Tiffany Scott I love that. I love that.

Kate McKinnon Yeah.

Tiffany Scott It's that's not an easy thing to to hear without, wanting to punch somebody in the face, I gotta say. Can you imagine if a teacher said that now, what TikTok would do to that?

Kate McKinnon Yes. I cannot imagine that at all.

Tiffany Scott Which they deserve what they would deserve. it's horrible.

Kate McKinnon Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. It's it's wild to think that that was something that that was said just very matter of factly. It wasn't even it's really hard for me to make this decision. It was like, I'm not gonna do this because there's

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Well it's but

Kate McKinnon Sorry.

Tiffany Scott your reaction is really admirable because that is something that some people could just go into their shell and feel sad over. But but I like how you took that in a a way of okay, I'm just all right, forget you. I'm gonna prove you wrong eventually, and you did. You sure did. Master's degree. How many how many

Kate McKinnon Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And

Tiffany Scott certifications do you have behind your name? three or f three, four? yeah. Yeah.

Kate McKinnon well I have my I have my master's and then I have my my HR certifications, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I

Tiffany Scott Yeah, so you're there. Good for you.

Kate McKinnon but I was a I was an awful awful student really

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon bad and because of that I also paid zero attention in school. I was super

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon social every time my parents were brought in for any kind of conference. It was like No, Kate's really social and doesn't pay attention and they're like, Yep, we're aware

Tiffany Scott I was this I was the same way, but I skipped a lot of school. I w I was social outside. But I always showed up to work. Once I was old enough and I was driving,

Kate McKinnon Nietzsche?

Tiffany Scott I would leave school. I'd get there, I'd leave school, and then three o'clock rolled around, I was reporting, front and center to work. Never missed a day. Isn't that funny? Yeah. Well what same. What was your first

Kate McKinnon That's how I was too. Same with work, but incredible work ethic from my parents. Mm-hmm.

Tiffany Scott job?

Kate McKinnon Well, aside from babysitting, which I feel like is most people's first job,

Tiffany Scott Mm. Yeah.

Kate McKinnon I worked at a Dairy Queen and it was a wonderful perk because I ate a lot of ice cream, which is my absolute

Tiffany Scott Yes.

Kate McKinnon favorite. but it was an awful job. I had to dress up as an ice cream cone on the side

Tiffany Scott I bet

Kate McKinnon of the street, like a wave to passing cars. So bad.

Tiffany Scott My God. So my town was tiny. We're f

Kate McKinnon Mm-hmm.

Tiffany Scott we're both in the greater Philadelphia area, right? So I was in this

Kate McKinnon Yeah. Yep.

Tiffany Scott tiny town at the time you could either work at the diner, you could work at the Dairy Queen, or Wawa. And I chose Wawa and I stayed there for 10 years. But I

Kate McKinnon Wow.

Tiffany Scott yeah, and I

Kate McKinnon Yeah.

Tiffany Scott I I worked at I worked a corporate too. I was at their Wawa University and it was really cool. but one it really is, it really

Kate McKinnon Yeah. great organization. Mm-hmm.

Tiffany Scott is. I was bored though, honestly. I there were too many employees, too many. So

Kate McKinnon Really? Hmm.

Tiffany Scott I was like, it's a great it was that's I think I I I long for a boring job now, a cushy, steady paycheck, but

Kate McKinnon Yeah.

Tiffany Scott but at the time I wasn't challenged. It was it was I would have retired beautifully there.

Kate McKinnon Yeah.

Tiffany Scott I had one job and one little metric and that's all I needed to do. And I think their model was great. And they they were very strategic and everything, but For me, I just needed a something a little bit more aggressive and challenging.

Kate McKinnon Yeah.

Tiffany Scott and that's where I found staffing and a s and a brand new staffing company only open a couple of years. So I was able to grow with them. but I when I was worked for their corporate headquarters, so they we used to do these store celebrations and we had we used to have the goose like dress up.

Kate McKinnon Mm Wally? Is it Yeah.

Tiffany Scott Wally the Goose. And then there was the Shorty Hoagie. And the Shorty

Kate McKinnon boy.

Tiffany Scott Hoagie called off one time. So I had to dress up at the as the Shorty Hoagie. So we went into the stores and I'd like was waddling it. So I had my exposure to the but at least nobody can actually see you. I don't know if your ice cream cone, you could see your face. But that's the

Kate McKinnon Yes. You could not see my face. It was a giant plastic thing with straps over your shoulder. It was heavy and it smelled awful. It was in the middle of the summer. I was the last person

Tiffany Scott yeah. Yes.

Kate McKinnon to have to wear it. Just terrible.

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Off all. The things that we, we'll go through for our six dollar

Kate McKinnon It's good for resiliency.

Tiffany Scott paycheck at the t our is that what we were making at the time? Six dollars an hour, something five, five dollars? You're not that much older than me. I

Kate McKinnon I'm older than you. It was it was like

Tiffany Scott so you did you do traditional college anyway? After high school? Okay.

Kate McKinnon I I did. Yeah. I didn't get into any of the colleges I applied to. And so

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm.

Kate McKinnon my father said, Let's just go up and visit in person. so I went up and I met with the Office of Disabilities and

Tiffany Scott Mm.

Kate McKinnon connected to this incredible woman who ran the office for many, many years. Barbara Peters was her name. And I explained what I wanted to do. I we talked about

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon my my high school career and what I needed in in college from a support perspective. And she she accepted me. and I was able to get in in a summer session. I was I had to start in the summer.

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Kate McKinnon and then and then yeah, I I was able to get in. So and then I

Tiffany Scott Screen.

Kate McKinnon I tried to pay it forward by working for the Office of Disabilities

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Kate McKinnon while I was there. And I became a note taker for disabled students. So yeah. Yeah. So traditional college.

Tiffany Scott wow. That's great. Yeah.

Kate McKinnon And then I worked for six years before I went back to get my masters.

Tiffany Scott when you went to get your masters. No, I don't have my master's. I have I have my bachelor's. I didn't do traditional school. I got my associates in marketing and then I went back

Kate McKinnon Yeah. Okay.

Tiffany Scott and I got my bachelor's. Now when I got my bachelor's, it was a complete waste because I learned everything already that we were like I and

Kate McKinnon Hmm.

Tiffany Scott not to s not to sound arrogant, but I had real

Kate McKinnon Yeah.

Tiffany Scott world exposure and I was writing these papers. It was actually pretty easy. now I wonder if the master's degree is much different and more and still more challenging because I I've had that in the back of my head. do I c continue the education? Is that gonna be more challenging? Is that, worth the time and the money so how did you feel being exposed to the working environment and then having, the going back for the education on top of it?

Kate McKinnon I think it's a really fair question. I think it's an important

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Kate McKinnon question. I was going to go back from my master's straight out of college.

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Kate McKinnon did not do fantastically in college and wanted to start working. So decided not to and wanted to make sure that what I was going to be spending the money on was actually going to help me in my career. And so I think it's really valuable to have A separation between undergrad and graduate if you're going

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Okay.

Kate McKinnon for your master's. for me, I excelled in my master's program because it was all things I was super, super interested in. And

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon so it it was such a complete difference from how I was, undergrad and in high school. I was actually

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon studying and learning things that I was like, my gosh, this is the coolest stuff. I'm so interested in this. and that makes a big difference.

Tiffany Scott Yeah. I bet.

Kate McKinnon whenever I'm talking to somebody about whether they go back to school for their master's, their PhD, whether they go to college, because now, college is so expensive. And is it really going to help you in your

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon career? And we say, what is the goal of your master's? Is it because you just love to learn and want to continue learning? And that's just been something that you've always wanted, is that experience?

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon is it going to help you in your career? are is your goal to make more money once you have your degree? So, really doing

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm.

Kate McKinnon research about those things is so

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon important before you decide to go back to school. I tell people a lot too, when people say that they're thinking about their PhD, I always say, make sure that that doesn't for for teaching, if you're a professor, absolutely, sometimes you have to go back for it. But in the corporate world, a lot of times people will not hire. when you have your PhD because you're you're looked

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon at as being so much more expensive than somebody that doesn't have it. So sometimes it can even be a hindrance. So just making

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon sure that for what it is that you want to do, that it

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon makes sense and that your reasoning behind it, stands up.

Tiffany Scott It's really good advice. Really good advice. Thanks.

Kate McKinnon Yes, of course. But I loved my master's program. It was the,

Tiffany Scott And

Kate McKinnon it was such a good thing. I'm so grateful that I did it.

Tiffany Scott That's great. When what was your major?

Kate McKinnon leadership development. Yeah, I went to Penn State for leadership development. Mm hmm. Yeah.

Tiffany Scott Leadership, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And how and you had been in the workforce for eight years, you said?

Kate McKinnon Well, yeah, so I I worked full time and got my masters full time. So I went back in two thousand and six and I graduated in two thousand and eight. Yeah.

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Okay. Cool. Wow, that's great. if you could change something in your business early on, we talked a little bit about some of the the early mistakes, but if there's one thing that you could go back above anything else and change how you set up your business now, what would it be?

Kate McKinnon I think and and it probably even if I knew this, I would still have done it the same way because I just am so terrible at the the very, very detailed setting up the actual foundation of the business. I would

Tiffany Scott Mm, mm-hmm.

Kate McKinnon say I would have maybe started with that, really getting invoicing under control, making sure that I knew how it was gonna be, getting paid by clients and,

Tiffany Scott Right.

Kate McKinnon So I think those things I probably would have taken more time to set up. because

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon what happens is once you start to have the business, then you're like scrambling to get all of those things set up.

Tiffany Scott Totally. Yeah.

Kate McKinnon so I probably would have done that a little bit more proactively, maybe even had somebody help me do that.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon but even knowing that, I probably wouldn't have done that because that's the stuff I'm least interested in. doing. I'm awful at it. I don't like it. if

Tiffany Scott Totally same. Yeah.

Kate McKinnon I'm going to hire anybody in the future, it will 100% be somebody that can take care of all of those things. so yeah, that would be my my change, the the thing that I would do to change things.

Tiffany Scott Yeah, I think I agree. I still have some taxes and little odds and ends, payroll tax and stuff. stuff I know I'm least interested. That's the only thing. I ran almost every department in the company that I was with, except never went near accounting and finance. Didn't have an interest, didn't they didn't want me there. Which was totally

Kate McKinnon Yeah, it's it's for sure the worst. Yeah. Terrible at it.

Tiffany Scott mutual. Yeah. Yeah.

Kate McKinnon Terrible at it.

Tiffany Scott That's that's great. what are you looking to do next? Are you looking to scale? Are you look are you comfortable? what's your what are your next steps and and goals for your business or for yourself in general?

Kate McKinnon Yeah. Yeah. No, it's a really good question. I so I'm I'm about seventy five percent of the way through my first book. So I want to finish that.

Tiffany Scott it was so f I was gonna ask you if you were gonna write a book because that's seriously you need to be writing. Yes. I'm so excited. Okay, so go ahead. Sorry.

Kate McKinnon Yeah. Yeah. So so that is that is aside from taking care of

Tiffany Scott Yes.

Kate McKinnon all my clients and doing all of that. So that that is like I need to get that out. I need to get that done. so

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Good for you.

Kate McKinnon so that is number one on the priority list in terms of, anything aside from just my day to day working with

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon my clients. But I don't know. know that I'm gonna bring on a team. I think I could have potential contractors at some point that are helping to deliver

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm.

Kate McKinnon some of the material that I've created. I'm not there yet. I still really like to service everything myself. That's something that that I, sell essentially

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon when I'm talking to people that they're working with me and me only right now. I don't know if that'll be sustainable. We'll see. We'll see. Yeah.

Tiffany Scott Yeah. So what is the premise of your book?

Kate McKinnon So it is from classroom to career. So it's basically

Tiffany Scott Whoa.

Kate McKinnon helping people that are either new grads, career transitioners,

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon people that are coming out of sport, people coming out of the service that are really trying to figure out how do I find a job in today's marketplace? How do I interview? What are the the key skills I need to be successful? How to work with different generations, how to

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon make an impact in your first 90 days, how to speak in a way that people from all different generations, that that your message resonates.

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm.

Kate McKinnon so it's really trying to break down the barrier of that. And I I don't think that kids, I say kids, but young adults are properly trained for that transition.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon they learn about the job that they're interested in, but not how to go about actually getting the job. So

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon it's really to help bridge that gap.

Tiffany Scott And you're seventy five percent done, you said. Are you writing it yourself or are you do you have a ghostwriter? You're all in. Wow, good for you. Okay.

Kate McKinnon No, I'm writing it all myself. Yeah, I'm doing hybrid publishing. So I signed with a publishing company. So I'll be doing but I'm doing all the writing. So they they got the first half of it. They were very happy with it. So second half

Tiffany Scott good.

Kate McKinnon is almost done.

Tiffany Scott Is that super nerve wracking when you submit the first half? w what if it comes back your

Kate McKinnon Yeah, a little bit.

Tiffany Scott graded paper that you're waiting on, Yeah.

Kate McKinnon Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. They I love to write. it's one of the reasons why I'm so active on LinkedIn because it's just like

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon I constantly am brain dumping. That's all that that really is. So

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon for me, I love writing. It's just, yeah, to make sure that this is like something that people will find useful is really what the stress is. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Tiffany Scott Yeah. Yeah. I love it. What's your timeline, you think? Do you have a timeline?

Kate McKinnon I'm hoping that I can get the rest to them in the next month and a half.

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Kate McKinnon and then maybe by the spring.

Tiffany Scott How okay. I was gonna say how long does that process take then?

Kate McKinnon Yeah, hybrid's interesting because it's it's a lot faster to production than traditional publishing because they're just really editing, helping with cover

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Kate McKinnon design, and then getting it up on Amazon. So

Tiffany Scott And then what's traditional? What's the diff the big difference?

Kate McKinnon Traditional is where you're actually working hand in hand to get the book through the writing process, the editing process, the publishing

Tiffany Scott Okay.

Kate McKinnon process. So you're leaning on the publishing company a a lot more. Yeah. Hybrid

Tiffany Scott A lot more. I gotcha.

Kate McKinnon is good for people that like to write, that are like, I'm good. I can write it. I just

Tiffany Scott Okay. Yeah.

Kate McKinnon need the help getting it to market. Mm-hmm.

Tiffany Scott Got it. And are you do you talk a lot about your own life experience in there? Is it like

Kate McKinnon I do.

Tiffany Scott yeah.

Kate McKinnon Yeah. I I have, at the end of of every section, I have real life examples, whether it's my own examples, whether it's examples with individuals that I've worked with or that have worked for me or that have been a part of the of companies that I've been a part of to really show people in real time, these are mistakes that everybody makes. This is how to

Tiffany Scott Mm-hmm.

Kate McKinnon overcome it. And this is why it's important that you're able to, Either be proactive with owning your career. nobody's gonna step in and own your career for you. And this is why.

Tiffany Scott Yeah.

Kate McKinnon This is how to own, to take ownership. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Tiffany Scott Love it. No, that's so exciting. And you'll have to come back when you do your well when you're doing a book tour. I'm sure you'll do a pot another podcast tour. Yeah.

Kate McKinnon I would love it. Yeah, I would love that. Yeah.

Tiffany Scott I had a feeling this was gonna be one where I'd look down at the time and be like, my gosh. I feel like I have so much more that I could ask and talk to you about, but it might, get us into into trouble another half hour, hour long.

Kate McKinnon Possible.

Tiffany Scott But okay, this was great. I knew you were gonna be so much fun to talk to. I'm so, so glad that you decided to come hang out with me. And I hope you'll do it again. I I can't wait to see now this next literal chapter of you writing your book and how your business goes. And I actually really learned a lot from you today myself. So I have a few takeaways. that good some refresher, some brand new, some reset. this was very fulfilling for me. So I appreciate your time.

Kate McKinnon thank you so much for having me. It was so much fun and you're right.

Tiffany Scott Glad.

Kate McKinnon I think we could talk for another hour easily.

Tiffany Scott All right, Kate. Well you take care and I can't wait to talk with you again.

Kate McKinnon You too. See ya soon.

Tiffany Scott See ya.